That sounds like you typed that through gritted teeth.

By my calculations if Shenton had not played at all on saturday Leeds would have scored 112 points!

In Barry mac testimonial brochure scroots gives an account in one of his first games first team running on the pitch. Opposition props were saying they were gonna smash the young lad. Next minute Barry mac has hold of one of them saying they would have him to deal with first. Maybe this is what wilkin should have done rather than running to the press if he feels strongly about it, or maybe he doesn't have the melons for that

Why speak to him so patronising, and like he is a child?

I dissagreed with tvoc on the players entering the field, and thought he was been pedantic. But on this issue he is only raising a valid point.

Not one single person I have spoken to about Saturday's game (many neutrals and many oppossition fans) have said anything other than it was really lucky that Shenton went off but what a great game. You would have to be incredibly biased and one eyed not to see that his injury played a major momentum swing in Leeds favour.

But those are the crumbs you are fed, and Leeds were clinical in taking advantage of the situation. These sort of things happen in most games, and Leeds should be credited for taking the initiative and exploiting the situation. But let's not be so arrogant as to ignore the reality of the situation.

IMO regardless of Shenton been off Leeds still dominated that game for 75% of the game, and therefore were deserving of the win, and the truth is we will never know whether we would have still won with Shenton on the field, and I don't really care.

When has Jon Wilkin ever said he's 'harder' than Bailey? What happens if they can't have a fight during the game? Dual on Sir Matt Busby Way, Wild West style afterwards?

Wilkin's comments aren't that controversial IMO. Bailey was being a d$ck, Wilkin said he's got no respect for him. I'm sure you would get that response from most SL players if you asked them and I'm sure you'd get it from a few Leeds players as well, they weren't overly impressed with how he was behaving either.

Had Bailey physically done something I'm sure they would have responded, but it wouldn't exactly be appropriate to get sent off in a GF because Bailey was being a fool would it?

Didn't say that wilkin thought he has "harder" than bailey. I only stated that if he felt strongly about Bailey intimidating the younger players he should have maybe confronted him there and then, doesn't have to fight. Instead he said nothing does nothing other than winge to the press after it all happened!

Get of your high horse Gotcha, I didn't reply to anyone, it was tongue in cheek and the initial summary about Shenton was from a saints fan nothing to do with tvoc.

Shenton (and Wellens for that matter) were both on the field up to the end of the first half, which Leeds led.

The first twenty of the 2nd half had nothing to do with Leeds "having no joy" it was to do with Saints playing well and Leeds having no ball. You make it sound as though we were behind in the first half and spent the first twenty mins of the 2nd half battering down our left only to be repelled by Michael Menninga Shenton. At the stage of Shenton's injury I recall the TV crew saying Saints had enjoyed 80% possession or something like.

Once the possession evened up the game actually turned on two runs down Leeds right hand side by Lautiti, both of which earned penalties and repeat sets.

Saints had their swing of the momentum and built an 8 point lead from it because of the resolute nature of Leeds goal line defence. Leeds got their swing of the momentum and Saints melted. It had nothing to do with Michael Shenton being there or not.

Being

Ok. It's 21 pages in and still no-one, it seems, can actually say what Bailey did. The radio interviews with Wilkin & Foster that tvoc kindly posted do not describe what he did either. Wilkin specifically says it was "after the game" which I assume to mean after the final whistle. All Wilkin says is that Bailey was "whooping & celebrating" and that he squared up to younger Saints players and to "check the tapes". Well I've checked them. Immediately after the final whistle Bailey is indeed whooping & celebrating but unless I've missed it I can't see a point where he ever squares up to any Saints player at all. I wonder if Wilkin's obvious dislike for Bailey has got to him and we know that Wilkin has a hard time concealing his dismay after a grand final.
As for Jamie Foster, he specifically says that he didn't see it. So is obviously going off what someone else (Wilkin?) told him.

Personally, unless the whole incident is well after the game or not when Wilkin said it was, I just think that Wilkin didn't like Bailey celebrating so much before going to shake hands with the Saints players

Of course it was. His departure caused chaos in the defensive line. Credit goes to Leeds for exploiting it so brilliantly.

I think all of Super League is racist....fact!

i wonder who Wilkin will be hiding behind today in Loughborough?

i'll bet he goes over to Bailey and appologizes

Bailey should just shake his hand and say ''dont worry, maybe one day you will get to wear a ring like this''

My take on the Shenton thing

Webbs try on 63
Ali goes down the right and gets a penalty, ball goes left and Webb goes between dixon and Soliola, it doesn't even get to the centre position the saints centre and winger were marking Ablett and Hall as they should have, would Shenton of covered 4 defensive position? IMO No.

Halls try
Burrow makes his break past the second rower (think its Dixon?) the centre? is marking Abblet and Hall because his winger is so far back on the 3rd tackle, would Shenton of marked Burrow, Ablett & Hall? IMO No.

Ablett try
Power close to the line that's all, nobody out of position nor any missed tackles, could Shenton of stopped that try, IMO 50/50 these kind of trys are scored every week in SL.

Hardaker try
No just No.

Highlights are on the SL website if anyone disagrees with me.

It's not about the specifics of the channels the tries were scored in, it's the disruption it caused throughout the defensive line. We made something like 4 changes in an attempt to readjust and it just left the whole defensive line in a mess.

You had to make changes I give you that but the theory of the Shenton sized hole that Leeds players could just walk through is just that.

As my post above pinpoints only 1 break was made when Shenton went off and that was the one by Burrow past your second rower, Burrow has done this a few times before in his career and he's also done it past Shenton whilst at Cas before.

Did Paul Sterling tell you to say that?

Quite. It doesn't bear scrutiny when you actually watch the game.

It's a lazy and easy assumption to say "it was because Shenton went off" when in reality it had nothing to do with that at all.

I can understand Saints fans searching for it as an excuse but I can't understand Leeds fans falling for it, apart from dim ones like Gotcha who was only trying to lick TVOCs behind anyway.

I've no problem with being wrong and the highlights are there to watch so if anyone disagrees I won't shed a tear it just my opinion.

FWIW for those whom are friends with Callamillor on Facebook, on his homepage I have just posted the footage I shot as Sinfield took his kick at the end of the game. The quality isn't brilliant, but if you presume the dark blobs are Leeds players, and the light ones ont heir own line are St helens players, then it's hard to see where this "fronting up" happened.

It didn't happen. It's a fiction. Wilkin is a poor loser, despite the amount of practice he has had at it.

Like the happening at wembley with the wigan academy lad, one poster on the wigan site now says he knows the lad and its true but wont say what "it" was and doesn't know why wigan never complained to Leeds or the RFL.

Thats a bit rich coming from you.

I may have said something silly when I was hammered once but I'm hardly your mate @keiranwright94 am I?!

The latest is that Wilkin now doesn't appear to have any problem with Bailey!

At least he's confirmed that he's a dummy spitter like we already knew!