That’s sport for you, we could change all the players and all the coaching staff and still have a bad season, there is no guarantees.

You're right, there are no guarantees in sport. All you can do from CEO to scholarship player is work as hard as you can to improve. I'm not sure that enough of our players, coaching team or the CEO himself could answer that question honestly with a "yes, I've done everything I can to help us to improve".

In professional sport, the harder you work, the luckier you become. Too many at Leeds are resting on their laurels or just don't recognise what hard work actually is.

Poor day at the office it happens - the Cas hammering etc.

My concern is that the players don't appear to be improving under Smith. I accept we have a poor squad but it rarely performs to its potential. I would be very vary of filling the squad with players that Smith wants - we need to think will he be here. We only have to look across to Beeston to see what happens when you do this.

Lots of players have improved under Smith, and most of his signings have been good - even the second string signings have done a job, Olpherts aside. Some players have improved and then gone backwards (Bentley), or have been unable to arrest their decline for some reason (Oledski). The squad looks shot right now given some high profile injuries (unavoidable) as well as several departures that should have been better managed. It's easy to blame one or two individuals (i.e. Smith) but in reality it is probably a lot messier and multi-faceted.

I can handle results like Saturday's if the first team is genuinely moving in the right direction. The signs are cautiously positive for recruitment and retention but we're obviously missing at least two big signings, and a third if Nene is not coming back (which doesn't look promising). Whoever wears the shirt next week, whatever the opposition, we need to see a reaction performance - and for what remains of the season.

I agree with ESR. Individually I think there is only Wardle in that team who is a stand otu international. Possibly French if he was British & Havard if he was fit. Otherwise it is stacked with good quality SL players, not a patch on years gone by. What they have is unbelievable team spirit, a consistent side & look, as Phil Clarke mentioned, like they have been training together for a season. Huge credit must go to Matt Peet, who has done a brilliant job. Man for man, Leeds are not that much different, apart from probably stand off & FB.

Our depth is better in a number of positions to cover injuries everywhere except halfback. What we couldn't handle is players leaving as well. Not excusing earlier performances, but right now I think the team is in far worse shape in terms of available players than some would like to admit.

Of the team vs Wigan maybe only 10 will be in the first 17 next year - Fusitu'a, Newman, Martin (somewhere), Handley, Oledzki, O'Connor, Holroyd, Lisone, McDonnell, Smith. So a completely new 1,6 and 7 and maybe a centre and another front row to come, plus Bentley, Goudemand and Sangare to add.

The problem we have to the end of the season is that 1,6 and 7 are the most important players there are. Hooley may be passable but I can't see us doing much more than compete gamely at best from now on in. The squad is busted, has nothing to play for and in some positions we're beyond reserves. I don't like Gannon or Martin in the backs, but I'm not sure what other options we really have?

Agree. We are running on fumes with no petrol station in site for the rest of the year. Painful as it was, Saturdays result was entirely predictable. It's going to be a tough watch this week and next.

None. Thats why throwing the baby out with the bath water at this stage of the season is daft. We are a busted team atm.

The onus now is on recruitment and/or retention. If we cant get this right this off season with all the cap we have to play with then we really do have issues. Shopping in the bargain bins just wont cut it this season.

Ill expect a "root and branch" email to come out from Darth in the next week or so to try and calm the natives as this season has been such a massive let down. It promised much and delivered nothing.

The statement the other day I read is brilliant all this talk of transition needs to end, it just wont cut it anymore and cannot be used as a scapegoat for people not doing their jobs correctly / at all and coasting off past glories that count for naught now.

We won't get a 'root and branch' email IMO, because this process already started around the time Smith was appointed. I don't think anyone ever expected instant success, even though it may have looked that way with the GF run.

Talk of a transition should not end, a) because it is realistic given the hole we are in and b) because it is an acknowledgement that while they are trying to fix things up in the short-term it is going to take more collective work over a longer period of time to get us back to the top.

That doesn't mean Leeds can't put a competitive team together for next season that have a good chance of making top 4 (or better), which was the aim this season. We need a few more astute signings and a decent pre-season.

pre season is where we will get a good idea of how the season will go. this pre season, as others have said, was nothing short of a joke and we looked massively undercooked. hopefully next is taken much more seriously

Absolutely agree on that tad. I'd say some of the off-season stuff was fine, in terms of building team spirit etc. But Smith really did seem to treat pre season games as a bit of a mess about, which went into the early season with the short kick offs etc.

If you start the season strong you get points in the bank, which cover when the inevitable injuries/patches of poor form arise. I understand the idea of tapering to the end of the season, but if you never really get going you get what we have this year, just bumbling around mid table. Frankly in many ways we never seemed to fully recover from the shellacking at Warrington on the opening day of the season.

The Warrington game rang alarm bells with me, we weren’t up for the fight against a highly committed Warrington team. Similar against Cas we weren’t up for that game either. Also let’s not forget the game at Wakefield when we had a reasonable team on display and lost that one against a woeful Wakefield side.

TBF we've not been up for many games this year. There's been unrest in the camp and I think a bit of players meandering their way through the last year / months of contracts.

Im all for experimenting a little in games but it just seemed so ridiculous some of the gimmicks were continued on for so long.
That was a very sobering season opener where looked absolutely shell shocked and had nothing but daft shortcut plays blow up in our faces continuously.

What a load of crap. I suppose believing this nonsense helps you cope with just how your own team is. Let's see how "bang average" we are on Friday, hey?

He has been a fine player and servant ,but I would like to see JJB out of the club now TBH

Why?, he's got absolutely nothing to do with the Rugby playing side

Walters banned for 1 game therefore misses the Catalan game.
Must admit I don`t recall the incident.

give jjb time and he'll worm his way in. and he's a crackpot. mad as a box of frogs

If you believe that you are naive - he is on the main board - you think when they discuss the performance on the field he isn't asked for his opinion?

Smith got him out because he wasn't prepared to have happen to him what happened to Furner.

I see Shaun Wane has mentioned Newman has to improve his discipline to be an international player. Let's hope this gets through to him.

Do you think Smith pushed JJB out of the coaching role? I'm asking because I have no idea. It would make sense, because when JJB was caretaker coach he was talking about a future as a head coach sometime, so odd he would choose to step aside from that trajectory as an assistant.

As much as people don't rate JJB on here, I can imagine he'd have a good emotional connection with players, and be able to get them up for games (as an assistant). I can't see that quality in Smith, who seems pretty dreary from all the behind the scenes footage.

He will take over from GH and made the decision himself to step out of the coaching role.

JJB is set in the ways of the golden generation and how they did things - the game has moved on. You only have to listen to his comments after the Wigan game to see how detached he is from the reality of what is going on. A very strange individual. The further he is from the playing side the better.

Are you on crack!!