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| Quote ="Dwayne Dibley"Steady on Bang,I have it on good authority that El D is akin to a whirling dervish when he starts be outraged at your peril!
He can out Flower,Flower.'"
I'm the Ben Flower of angry letters to my local paper. Grrrrrrrrrr. |
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| Quote ="Fat Boy"It's getting harder and harder to tell the trolls and the deluded apart on this forum these days.'"
Given your habit of trolling the boards/fans of some other clubs, I'd be cautious about casting aspersions on trolls if I were you... |
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I agree the matter should be closed and moved on from. However the problem is that it was the last game of the season, until the 4 Nations starts what have fans and journalists got to talk and write about?
Had it happened early in the playoffs then with the semis and GF to play they'd have been something for people to move onto topic-wise.
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| Quote ="suffolk rhinos"worse than jim mills stamp ?'"
No way. I've seen the video of that and it's utterly sickening. I also think Newton on Long was worse as he actually intended to seriously injure him. |
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Moriarty on Waddell is just about the worst I've seen. Hughie being held by two tacklers, and The Evil Moriarty* comes flying in elbow first at Waddell's head.
Look up 'Leeds 26 vs Widnes 12 (1989) 1/2' on youtube and got to about 2 mins 20 secs. The shot from the scoreboard end really captures it.
*(c) Stuart Duffy (pre turning to the dark side)
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| Quote ="Aboveusonlypie"That's exactly what WILL happen. The reputation of the game hasn't changed one iota. Most of those calling for a public hanging never watch a game from one year to the next. Furthermore those who do, understand that watching grown men biff each other about is a big part of what makes the game enjoyable.
Many fans wax lyrical about the likes of Barrie Mac, Kelvin Skerritt and Big Jim Mills in a 'good old days' way, but get all sanctimonious when something similar happens nowadays.
As for the 'family' thing. If you can really come up with a living breathing 'family' who were put off the game by what Ben Flower did, I'll change my mind. I suspect you won't be able to though.
Storm in a teacup. Old news already.'"
Bull$hit if the highest order. Two big lads having a set to was a part of the game I miss also, but I have no nostalgia whatsoever for thugs who took out playmakers. A prop knocking out and then smacking again a defenceless half on the ground is not "biff", it's the thuggery that blighted the sport for decades. Les Boyd got two bans of 12 months for acts of thuggery in the days when big lads could sort things out amongst themselves. You obviously can't tell the difference.
Having said that, the ban is fair and Flower should be treated like any other player once he's playing again. He's a good player and if he can control himself and put this behind him he has a great future on the game. |
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| Quote ="Andy Gilder"And the operative word there is "seconds". How long was there between the two punches? Long enough for Flower to assess Hohaia's physical state and make a conscious decision to throw the second punch? Of course not. The second punch was thrown on instinct.
In some ways, bad as this was, is it really that much worse than Terry Newton's conscious, pre-meditated attacks on Sean Long and Lee Gilmour for example?'"
Flower wasnt unconscious. He didnt suffer some kind of psychotic episode. His frustration and anger simply manifested itself in a horrible violent manner. There was no justification, no mitigation, no context. It was exactly as violent and aggressive as it looked. |
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| Quote ="SmokeyTA"Flower wasnt unconscious. He didnt suffer some kind of psychotic episode. His frustration and anger simply manifested itself in a horrible violent manner. There was no justification, no mitigation, no context. It was exactly as violent and aggressive as it looked.'"
I agree with this. The flipside being that it wasn't in any way pre-meditated.
Bad incident, appropriately punished in my opinion. |
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| Quote ="gulfcoast_highwayman"Moriarty on Waddell is just about the worst I've seen. Hughie being held by two tacklers, and The Evil Moriarty* comes flying in elbow first at Waddell's head.
Look up 'Leeds 26 vs Widnes 12 (1989) 1/2' on youtube and got to about 2 mins 20 secs. The shot from the scoreboard end really captures it.
*(c) Stuart Duffy (pre turning to the dark side)'"
Disgusting flying elbow I agree. I hope you were describing from memory rather than watching it though because there's no way he was being held by 2 tacklers. At worst the hit was roughly the same time 1 other player was going into the tackle. |
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I think the hit on Morley at Wigan takes some pre-meditated deliberate elbow at speed into the eye area - disgusting far worse than what Flower did.
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| Quote ="Sal Paradise"I think the hit on Morley at Wigan takes some pre-meditated deliberate elbow at speed into the eye area.'"
I'm not sure the Morley hit on McCormack was that much better. |
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Flower can have no complaints.
But the worst one I have ever seen was in the 1970 Challenge Cup Final
Keith Hepworth with both feet off the floor elbowed Colin Tyrer off the ball breaking his jaw. Tyrer was a very good attacking fullback and great goal kicker. Cas went on to win the game by 5 points and Bill Francis missed 3 penalty kicks.
The attack on Tyrer was so late that it was not penalised, Hepworth stayed on the field and never got suspended. No video ref or trial by t.v then.
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| Quote ="craigizzard"I'm not sure the Morley hit on McCormack was that much better.'"
Other than he didn't connect? |
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| Quote ="Sal Paradise"I think the hit on Morley at Wigan takes some pre-meditated deliberate elbow at speed into the eye area - disgusting far worse than what Flower did.'"
If that hit had been slightly lower it could have caused catastrophic damage. Cassidy was so high he missed a lot of the softer part of Morely's face.
Worst jaw injury was of course Andy Dannatt's attack on Ellery Hanley. That was the turning point as I believe it was the first ban based on match video evidence. Dannatt got 8 weeks, Hanley was out over 3 months. |
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| Quote ="El Diablo"I agree with this. The flipside being that it wasn't in any way pre-meditated.
Bad incident, appropriately punished in my opinion.'"
Agree.
Done now. |
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John Hopoate's flying assault on Keith Galloway was pretty horrific.
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| Quote ="Rogues Gallery"Flower can have no complaints.
But the worst one I have ever seen was in the 1970 Challenge Cup Final
Keith Hepworth with both feet off the floor elbowed Colin Tyrer off the ball breaking his jaw. Tyrer was a very good attacking fullback and great goal kicker. Cas went on to win the game by 5 points and Bill Francis missed 3 penalty kicks.
The attack on Tyrer was so late that it was not penalised, Hepworth stayed on the field and never got suspended. No video ref or trial by t.v then.'"
yes I remember that.Worst one I saw was the blatant two handed smash into Leeds Alun Rees by Keith Holden of Oldham Rees was never the same after that.Holdn got sent off , but just a run of the mill ban |
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| Quote ="Rogues Gallery"Flower can have no complaints.
But the worst one I have ever seen was in the 1970 Challenge Cup Final
Keith Hepworth with both feet off the floor elbowed Colin Tyrer off the ball breaking his jaw. Tyrer was a very good attacking fullback and great goal kicker. Cas went on to win the game by 5 points and Bill Francis missed 3 penalty kicks.
The attack on Tyrer was so late that it was not penalised, Hepworth stayed on the field and never got suspended. No video ref or trial by t.v then.'"
Your mention of Colin Tyrer reminded me what a great innovation the kicking tee has been!
Colin used to sculpt his own kicking tee that should have guaranteed an invitation to the Guild of Bricklayers as a master craftsman. Painstaking, an attention to detail and never rushed! |
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| Quote ="Sal Paradise"Other than he didn't connect?'"
Not sure why McCormack had to zigzag off the field with tweety birds flying round his head if it didn't connect. |
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| Quote ="lionarmour87"yes I remember that.Worst one I saw was the blatant two handed smash into Leeds Alun Rees by Keith Holden of Oldham Rees was never the same after that.Holdn got sent off , but just a run of the mill ban'"
Yes it was a very bad one on Alun Rees and very deliberate. Big signings from RU always got a rather nasty reception from certain sections of League perhaps because of jealousy of the big signing on fees. Alun Rees had one of the best side steps I have seen and sadly this injury certainly limited his rugby career but he went on to be an outstanding country cricketer and one of the best cover fielders of his day.
Difficult to make accurate comparisons with incidents from a different era because we did not have the benefit of close up TV or replays in those days. With regard to the ban handed down to Flowers, I think it would have been more meaningfull to have banned him for a fixed number of first class matches rather than a fixed term which covers all of the off season. Six months sounds much more severe than 10 matches so IMO he got off lightly. |
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Had Cassidy tried to tackle Morley properly he'd probably been the one on the floor needing the physio, Morley ran in like a f**king steam train.
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| Quote ="craigizzard"Not sure why McCormack had to zigzag off the field with tweety birds flying round his head if it didn't connect.'"
Because Morley simply ran over him his swinging arm missed by quite a wide margin - if he had connected then McCormack could have been seeing stars for a prolonged period |
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Quote ="Sal Paradise"Because Morley simply ran over him his swinging arm missed by quite a wide margin - if he had connected then McCormack could have been seeing stars for a prolonged period'"
He missed him? Are you Stevo? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HCyzM0V4pk |
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Quote ="Sal Paradise"Because Morley simply ran over him his swinging arm missed by quite a wide margin - if he had connected then McCormack could have been seeing stars for a prolonged period'"
He missed him? Are you Stevo? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HCyzM0V4pk | |
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I've watched that many times in the past, still got the whole game on video somewhere. Morely misses completely with the swinging arm, the damage is done by Morely hitting McCormack at full tilt with his chest/shoulder right between McCormack's shoulder blades. It's a whiplash injury that puts McCormack out. Have to agree with Sal, Morley just ran over the top of him at full speed.
It was dangerous and there was obviously a massive arm swinging but it was, at the time, a legal contact. I don't remember any citation for Morely, but couldn't be 100% sure of that. I can understand why the Wigan players might have been unhappy, but the Cassidy shot could have done horrific damage to Morely if it had been 3-4 inches lower. I also genuinley believe Morely never ran or hit as hard after that in a Leeds shirt. He was, until that incident, a complete monster in that game. One of the most dominant spells I have ever seen by a forward, with the ball and on defence. Martin Massala and Darryl Powell were also on fire that day.
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I've watched that many times in the past, still got the whole game on video somewhere. Morely misses completely with the swinging arm, the damage is done by Morely hitting McCormack at full tilt with his chest/shoulder right between McCormack's shoulder blades. It's a whiplash injury that puts McCormack out. Have to agree with Sal, Morley just ran over the top of him at full speed.
It was dangerous and there was obviously a massive arm swinging but it was, at the time, a legal contact. I don't remember any citation for Morely, but couldn't be 100% sure of that. I can understand why the Wigan players might have been unhappy, but the Cassidy shot could have done horrific damage to Morely if it had been 3-4 inches lower. I also genuinley believe Morely never ran or hit as hard after that in a Leeds shirt. He was, until that incident, a complete monster in that game. One of the most dominant spells I have ever seen by a forward, with the ball and on defence. Martin Massala and Darryl Powell were also on fire that day.
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| Quote ="DHM"I also genuinley believe Morely never ran or hit as hard after that in a Leeds shirt. He was, until that incident, a complete monster in that game. One of the most dominant spells I have ever seen by a forward, with the ball and on defence. '"
I'd agree with that. I watched a game that season in a pub in Bradford when you played the Bulls. Morley was unstoppable, the Bulls fans were up in arms due to the physicality. He was never quite as dominant & I often wondered whether it was the rest of the game catching up or the Cassidy incident. |
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