Agreed. Personally my thinking was that we needed a big improvement to compete. We only took the 2 points from the penalty so we could have a breather and try and eat the clock up to HT, because we'd been defending for most of the previous 15 minutes.

I'd have still rather we ate the clock up in their 10 trying to score and gain a huge boost before half time than taking two points which didn't really affect the game situation at all

So let me get this right - Leeds lose the Challenge Cup Final and you want to scrap the current World and Super League Championship winning team?

You KNEW after 10 minutes that Leeds would lose, even though we were only 2 points down going into the brake? Frekkin' genius you!

Well if there is a fan who deserves yesterdays result then it is most definitely you.

The disappointing aspect of the game is that we actually had chances after the 30 mins mark to gain control and we blew them. I was fearful that we could get blown away in first 20 and the game be over before we'd even got going but it wasn't the case.

1, After we go ahead 8-6 and Warrington are starting to struggle in the rain we have Hall tackling Hodgson a yard from Wire's tryline and we have the position and momentum to dominate the last 10 mins of the half and a take at least a 2 point lead into the break if not 6 or 8, instead we concede back to back soft penalties and its 12-8 down.

2, The Delaney try, correct decision made, 2 knocks on, scrum to Leeds. Whether or not the players thought it was the wrong call they were still only 20m out with a full set at Wire's defence and if they score then nobody remembers the no try as we still come away with the try and the 2nd half plays out very differently.

As well as Warrington played in that 2nd half can't help but think we shot ourselves in the foot and our own unforced mistakes were the key.

This team is not done by any means, but they are showing their age. They remind me of a once great boxer, who is still capable of flooring a young and cocky opponent, but is unlikely to become world champion again (yes I can see the irony in that last bit...).

We have a number of players who are rapidly approaching the end of their playing days, and a host of very promising younger players, and the trick is to replace the elder statesmen one at once to minimise the impact on the overall team. Maybe we should have started this process a year or two ago, and risked letting someone else have a year or two of quality from one of our "heroes" whilst letting our new stars settle in a controlled environment.

It seems to me that whilst this team is capable of better than it showed yesterday, that the "surgery" needed to regain a top 4 team status needs to start sooner rather than later. I wonder if GH will be good to his word earlier this season and start to move some players on? Somehow I doubt it, as long as the attendances hold up.

I don't disagree with you, but I think that's the reason we took the 2. The point I was getting at was that we took that kick because we'd been largely dominated in the 1st half, and therefore I wasn't confident at HT.

Where did i say ''scrap the team''? (whatever that means?) Ignoring the dramatic headline, it's obvious the team needs some surgery.

The pack comes off consistently second best against the better teams.

Oh, and:





It's break. You don't need to be a ''frekking genius'' for that.

I was probably more near you with the outside chance of a victory TBH. But still quietly confident and not writing them off after 10 minutes!

I don't want to fall into the trap of blaming management for the loss, but from what I have seen all year there is room for improvement in this department

I for you would be saddened to see McGuire, Burrow or Sinfield play in another teams colours, just as I was when Diskin moved on. I know there is no room for sentiment, but I'm a sentimental kind of guy!

I read something on the Wigan forum saying they could see Sinfield finishing off elsewhere. I really hope that doesn't happen but I see it becoming more and more difficult to accommodate all 3 of them yet clearly they all have something still to offer. When do the contracts run until?

I thought the issue of age would be one of the talking points if we lost because it always seem to be when we lose but can i just point out.......

Brett Hodgson - 34
Lee Briers - 34
Adrain Morley - 35
Gareth Carvell - 31
Michael Monaghan - 32
Trent Waterhouse - 31
Ben Westwood - 31
Micky Higham - 31
Paul Wood - 30

Over half of Warrington's 17 from the final are the wrong side of 30.

"[iStick a fork in this team[/i" I assume is an abbreviation of "Stick a fork in them, they're done", hence why I suggested that you wanted to scrap the team. Not an illogical step to make IMO.

Simply saying "ignore what I typed earlier, I was just be dramatic" doesn’t excuse you either. While I agree there are some changes that need to be made to the current (Championship winning) squad, I seriously don’t believe that wholesale changes need making.

Why do these threads always appear after big game losses, but not a sniff when on a lucky winning run against poor teams.

This teams been done for ages. The bile by the southstander self righteous know nowts never changed that.

Last season I backed this coach as I felt he deserved more backing to give it a go. This season has proved he is well out of his depth, even allowing for fastly ageing players.

The amount of game time some players get is poor. Our backs are still pretty good despite lacking depth and despite having to play our best forward there because of this. Although I have always had massive misgivings about BJB. Quality at times and really poor other times.

Our half backs show massive lack of competition due to the decision to go with a select individuals rather than look for competition and continuous improvement.

Our forwards are simply shocking though. Peacock defied his years yesterday and was the only forward to match up to the wire pack. Kylie can give good hard cameos, but we need more than that. Our two backrowers in JJB and Delaney are garbage and have been all year. Backrow has been a major weakness in this team. Then we put a plodding penalty machine at loose, when he should be prop. No pace and line breaking at all at the back of the scrum.

Forwards and especially backrow needs changing as a priority. JJB especially should not have this guaranteed starting spot irrespective of form. He and any other player should have to earn it each week.

I'm pretty sure we've won 2 Championships since you told us this team was done.

Forgive me if I don't value your opinion on the matter too highly. Law of averages states you'll have your moments to gloat if you spout the same bile over and over again

No we have had one championship, which is reality, so thank you for your incorrect statement.

And I can at least take some credit in that win against the odds, been one of the people prepared to speak truthfully and realistically, that gave the club and players the motivation to to try and prove the likes wrong.

Had everybody posted the same as the self righteous know nothing's, last year would never have happened.

Let me get this right...

You are taking some credit for Leeds winning a Championship because you wrote them off on an internet forum?

Now I've heard it all!

Gotcha for coach!

No, I am taking a small credit amongst the many that critisized and wrote off the team last year.

A point that the club and players went at pains to point out was the motivation for them to turn round their season and prove people wrong.

You have a problem with that? You don't think the players and club were been truthful?

I think you are embarrassing yourself pretty badly here. It wouldn't be the first time though would it?

To write a team off, and then claim credit when they win is frankly laughable.

I'm not sure "Gotcha off Soundstander" was high on their list of people who had upset them.

Why I am I so important to you here? Are you missing the point about all people who wrote them off? That is what I said, with me one of them.

If I knew I was that important to you I would have put sone decorative flags out too, whilst I shouted my importance from the roof tops.

I have too many other people far further up the pecking order mate that my importance is relied on. Forgive me for not really caring for your status of me.

As you were.

You're not - I find it pretty offensive that you are claiming credit for the victory. I think if you ask the players they'd rather the supporters were supportive to be honest.

What? Which pecking order?

You're confusing me now. Again, not for the first time!

I doubt Bailey packed down at loose forward once all game and if he did he was presumably lost. It's more likely to have been Burrow, Ward or Lunt for Leeds head and feed and Hardaker for the defensive ones.

On defensive scrums Bailey might not even pack down as he's quite likely to defend at stand-off on the open side to counter a big runner stood out of the Warrington scrum.

Yeah, but they're not being coached by McDonut

The supporters are supportive. The players don't run out to boos and abuse each week, they run out to cheers and RHINOS!!! RHINOS!!

The supporters are entitled to their opinion because they contribute to the players wages. If they want to criticise poor performances that's their chance and they are within their right to do so.

Which is fine. I, myself am critical of players and coaches from time to time. My argument was with Gotcha claiming he'd contributed to last year's Championship win by being critical.

Dealing with the topic at hand, the issue is that Peacock & Kylie, our two best forwards yesterday, will be taking their curtain call either at the end of this season or next, and that Ablett is currently stood out on the left as part of the backline. Meanwhile, Bailey is mercurial, and JJB has (for the first time in a long while) had a considerable period off form. Now, with Amor & Achurch coming back in we will have two new players to add zip. I'd add that Kirke has been vastly improved this year, and that when he'd had the minutes on field, Griffin's looked decent as well. The issue is that, in bringing in Hauraki and Moore, we have two players not pushing either the established 'stars' or having age on their side, using up cap space. While Clarkson has produced the kind of displays we need, neither of these two have, and that ought to be a concern.

Hopefully this close season will see the adding of a new left centre, or the promotion of Keinhorst, as well as another front rower (Scott Taylor of Hull KR is OOC). This will allow more time to be taken off Kylie & JP if they do stay, and more pressure put on the likes of Griffin & Bailey to produce.