and I will say this only once....

Let's not get into fallen Madonna territory.

You mean the one with the....

spot the 3 middle aged men!

There were plenty that said the same last year about this year

Maybe but it was obvious that even last year that there would be a lot of changes for 2024 with the players coming off contract

Let’s hope we actually see those changes and that they are the right quality players Christopher, I’m literally praying that they are because that’s all I have to believe in.

GH is right that the pool has shrunk. But its been small before and Leeds have used their financial clout to get the best available. Hopefully the remaining signings have the ability to bring us up a level.

That’s because they’re a pile of dog sh*te. There’s no drive to be the best. They don’t bring through good local players anymore. They don’t sign good players anymore. Just plod along and exist.

Club has no soul anymore.

All aboard the restarting the transition train, hire another cheapo manager, then restart it again next season. Excuse after excuse.

I think GH has drawn a line in the sand. But many of the problems we're seeing now are because he waited five years too long to do that, despite almost getting relegated several times and generally serving up dire rugby.

He let McDermott stay too long, and allowed junior development to become farcial. He then made bad choices with coaches, and kept giving jobs to former players with zero qualifications. That was made worse by horrendous decisions on player signings and retention, which as CEO GH simply can't say is all down to coaches. Some of the players who have left/will leave at the end of this year either shouldn't have been here in the first place or should have been let go years ago.

We seem to have tried to properly restart junior development, but its going to take years before the kids can make a difference to the first team. Short term, signings are the only way to improve the team.

They sacked McDermott nine months after he won his last Grand Final. I know lots of people were calling do his head at various times before then but the reality is very few clubs would have done it - indeed the media commentary when it actually happened was about how shocking it was.

Rohan Smith's defence is there are lots of young inexperienced kids in the team - let's look at last night's team.

1. Hooley - inexperienced at this level but 25 years old with >100 games in a good Champ side
2. Fusitua - first choice
3. Newman - first choice - might behave like a petulant child - hear he offered a fan out last night!!
4. Handley - first choice
5. Olpharts - experienced SL player
6. Martin - international player and first choice albeit not in this position
7. Sinfield - agreed
8. Oldeski - first choice
9. O'Connor - first choice
10 Holroyd - first choice
11 McDonnell - first choice
12.Gannon - agreed
13.Smith - first coice
14.Lisone - first choice - ex NRL player
15.Johnson - agreed
16. Ruan - agreed
17. Donaldson - experienced SL player

It is a fallacy about young players - there were 11 players who would play if everyone was fit. There were 4 young/academy players - Johnson it could be argued either way. This was not a side filled with academy players. There is no way this side should be conceding 60 points - looking in from the outside they were sending a message to the coach - time to go.

Time for Newman to go too - he needs a more structured stricter environment where he can grow up.

McDermott should have gone at the end of the 2015 season. He thought it was great idea for the club to have a few seasons in the doldrums so the supporters would appreciate the good times even more. McDermott started this and the club have been unable to turn it around.

They are now in a catch 22 - they can't get the better players because the club is a shambles and the can't redress the shambles util they get better players.

Two of the big signings of the summer can't get in the side of their current club - what does that say?

We can't live our lives in hindsight. McDermott was never going to be sacked after 2015 and he'd credit in the bank for all of 2016. Maybe after Cas away in '17 there was a chance but end of that season meant the reality was he was safe again. And rightly so because we won the title again!

Apart from the letting Newman go bit I agree. It's too easy to keep trotting out the " young / inexperienced " line up excuse. It's the senior players under performing week after week and the lack of organisation and leadership that has been our biggest problem all season. Smith has failed to sort that out all year.

All the warning signs are there that the problems we have are not going anywhere with RS in charge. So much of the season people have given reasons and patience for where the teams been at, this is now as low a point as we've had in recent years, not much better than 96 and gives bullsgate a run for its money. Talk about missing players all you like and give more excuses but he cant get anything like the best out of some pretty experienced players and his playing philosophy has been a mess all year. 10 games into next year and we're going to be in even more trouble.

Who do we get you ask, well, it's a pretty low bar that's been set. Not a good time for the smith family.

We have no money to rebuild to squad as we are mortgaged to the hilt for 40 years with 2 new stands, and season ticket sales will dwindle now too

Are you the accounts manager doing the rounds, then liking your own post.

Are you suggesting we can't have a good team for 40 years?? According to GH we've always spent to the cap. Given how bad the side has been for almost 10 years that speaks volumes about how appallingly managed our spend has been.

I said the same about the kids line. The players we had out could have competed much better against Wigan and Cats. With no halfbacks everybody else has to put in a real shift as a team, and they just haven't.

Look at that spine though - a champonship fullback, an 18 year old, a centre, and a hooker in his first full season in SL... There are reasons why this is the case, but realistically this is why we have been pointless for two weeks against top 4 opposition.

Confidence is obviously shot too. There is no belief, and not much to play for when we get behind on the scoreboard.

The Cas game is another matter and Smith has stated he expects (or at least wants) a win to bring a close to this awful season.

Thats all well and good but how are you going to explain the real problems with these performances? Falling off tackles, lack of any intent carrying the ball, lack of desire, unforced errors, dumb penalties and 6 agains, you know, the basic skills and mindset that go before any win. If turning up for yourself and eachother and the players at the side of you isn't enough to play for then theres some more weeding out of players that don't want it to come.

Wow , our ambition has no ends , a win against a dire Cas team is the height of our achievement hopes . Lets hope Cas are not up for it or the pre season clash against Hunslet may be our next win target

Hooley, Olpherts (who was directly responsible for errors leading to their first three tries IMO), Ruan, Sinfield, Donaldson are all reserve/back up players. That’s 5/17.

In addition we have a back rower at 6 and a winger in the centre.

Most of the players didn’t lack effort. The team is busted and falls apart under pressure in the circumstances.

Oledski was the player running back to try to take their winger into touch for that first try. McDonnell and Holroyd always give 100%. Smith tried hard too.

It does annoy me when people make broad brush statements like players are all 3/10 when we lose and 9/10 when we win. It’s just rubbish. Of course we should have performed better last 2 games but some of you would sack Hetherington, JJB, all the players, all the coaching staff and Betty the tea lady.

The effort last night was awful, it wasnt just the quality. Highlighting Oledzski chasing back, alright, what about the weak carries and getting brushed of by mcmeeken like he was nothing. Lisone when he came on, Fusitua, in patches Handley, Gannon played to the level where hes at, beyond that im struggling.