smiths 'planning for the future'......... yet picks smith



as for O'Loughlin, maybe wigan fans should take it as a sign that their world beater isn't going to get a game at 13 come the proper international matches

www.skysports.com/story/0,19528, ... 10,00.html Hull winger Tom Briscoe has been called up to replace Sean O'Loughlin after he cracked a bone in his thumb against Wales. Why call up a winger when a forward has been injured? You never know he may call up Burrow if a prop gets injured.

www.skysports.com/story/0,19528, ... 10,00.html Hull winger Tom Briscoe has been called up to replace Sean O'Loughlin after he cracked a bone in his thumb against Wales. Why call up a winger when a forward has been injured? You never know he may call up Burrow if a prop gets injured.

Further proof Tony Smith hasn't a clue.
Bring back Brian Noble

I think Briscoe did enough to impress in the Wales game and Smith wanted him in the squad. We do have plenty of forwards so I don't think it's any more complicated than that.

You did read the quote from Smith?

Good news re Tom Briscoe who outshone Peter Fox last Saturday.

Briscoe and Hall would be my first choice starting wingers.

O'Loughlin played at centre on Saturday so if that was Tony Smith's intention in the four nations it makes sense calling up an outside back as a replacement.

A potential backline of:
Briscoe
Briscoe, Smith, Shenton, Hall
McGuire, Tomkins

looks as good as it's going to get given the personnel available.

Again, I'd be cautious about making any Judgments based upon Saturday's game.

Briscoe looks the part but he's played 11 games for Hull this year and hasn't acheived anywhere near what Fox has at Sl level - yet.

Oh god. You're right. Oh god.

I don't get that last comment at all. Just what has Fox achieved that is massively greater than what Briscoe has?

I am in no doubt that Briscoe is a superior player and by playing in a CC final I would say Briscoe has more experience of the big occasions aswell.

Fox has appeared in the playoffs.

But he did nothing in them.

Both played against the same enthusiastic opposition and Briscoe looked the better International prospect of the two. I thought that was the whole point of Saturday as some kind of Test trial for the non Leeds and St Helens players.

Myler (one pass apart) showed why he would be a huge risk in the four nations after his period of inactivity.

Fox has been a consistent, regular performer in a top 8 team for the last couple of years whereas Briscoe has barely played at SL level, 11 games this year wasn't it? How many the year before?

It's a little harsh to accuse a 19 year old of a lack of experience. Wasn't Martin Offiah 19 once?

I know you like Fox, but for me he falls into the Ade Gardner box, fast in a straight line but prone to big brainfarts.

It's not like we have great competition for wing spots (Ryan Hall only needs to avoid losing a leg to have a long International career) but of the two England wingers on show on Saturday, I'd say Briscoe was the better performer, and thus has "earned" the right to a shirt in front of Fox.

However we all know that "earned" seems to mean nothing with the squad selection of TS so far...

[size=59(for the record, I'm not comparing Tom Briscoe with Martin Offiah)[/size

Your point?

13 the year before.

He has played 11 games, not through being dropped, but through injury. had he been fit he would have been an ever present. When he came back at the end of the season, Agar dropped Calderwood (our fans player of the year) to shoehorn him in.

Anyway, if you are good enough, you should be in, he's played more games than Tomkins who everyone is saying is a shoe in. If Briscoe gets found out against the Aussies, it hardly matters, we will lose whether he plays or not and he will be better for the experience.

its a bit misleading to state fox has been a regular consistant performer in a top 8 team on the basis that they were a top 8 team this year and fail to mention the previous years where he played in lower mid-table SL sides and prior to that NL2

im not sure what fox has got in his armoury to demand a place or even a shot at international level, he is 25 years old and has yet to pull up any trees, anwhere, ever, he is almost a very definition of super league mediocrity

Fox isnt as good as Gardner, has acheived much less than Gardner, and is only 18 months younger, he really isnt an investment for the future, he is only in this England squad because he isnt Ade Gardner

Tom Briscoe has at least shown some potential, he has shown he at least has the possibility of being a top class player, whether he makes it or not, there is at least a chance he can go on to be a top class international player

Fox, Briscoe, Myler, and Bridge are in the squad purely because they arent Gardner, Wellens, Pryce and Senior,

If Smith wanted this to be the best England Squad, Senior would be in there, Burrow would be in there, as would Pryce,

If he really wanted to plan for the future, where is Harrison? LMS? Lawrence?

You may want to check where Hull KR finished in 2008.

You may want to check which team Peter Fox played for in 2007 and where they finished.

Once we get you back to the real world I'd be happy to enter into a discussion.

Briscoe has played 12 games a year on average these last two years in a dire team. I think Fox has done far, far more to merit an opportunity, regardless of how they performed in a match against Wales.

That said, I liked what Briscoe did and if he gets his shot I hope he takes it.

Ah, so that is how we're awarding international caps now. To give Hull players an experience of playing along side decent players.

My bad.

so 7th and 8th out of 12 isnt lower mid table?

as i said, its a little misleading to say he is a top 8 regular when for two of those three years top 8 had no merit whatsoever and is akin to saying Warrington are a good side because they finished top 10 for the last few years


doing far more than a teenager who played 11 games isnt a great validation of his quality

Fox is 25 years old, only 18 months younger than Ade Gardner, he doesnt have the excuse of building towards the future, he is a player, of a similar age who isnt as good as, has less experiance than, and has acheived less than Ade Gardner with the one thing going in his favour being, his name isnt Ade Gardner

if we are picking the best team we have right now, Peter Fox isnt in it, he isnt one of the best two wingers in SL,

if we are picking a squad to build for the future, lets do so, lets give Owen, Lawrence, hell even Watkins a game or two, lets write off this series and look at winning the next,

either of those two choices are entirely preferable imo, to defaulting to a failed 25 year old half back, a 25 year old mediocre winger, and a 26 year old average full back

Briscoe, Fox, and Bridge arent investments in the future, they are players in the here and now who simply arent good enough

What are you talking about? I said he'd been a regular in a top 8 team. He has, for 3 successive years. You said I was being misleading. Well, for those with a basic grasp of English I wasn't.

No, its' not misleading because its' factually correct. You took connotations that simply weren't there and are now getting yourself very confused and, frankly, talking nonsense. How clearly would you like me top type it? HE HAS PLAYED IN A TEAM THAT HAS FINISHED IN THE TOP 8 FOR 3 CONSECUTIVE YEARS.

Capiche?



So you concede he's done far more. Why then does this teenager with so few games merit selection ahead of him?

What on earth are you talking about now? That's just gibberish.

Who is then? Briscoe? Those are the players we're comparing.

I was talking about picking a team on merit.

Erm, you gave us three choices actually. You're not making a lot of sense tonight. Maybe you should go to bed.
Perhaps they're not but that is not what we're discussing. Still, nice attempt to deflect attention away from your brain farts.

yes, fine

and whilst we are being completely arbitrary, he has played in a team which has finished in the bottom 12 every year he has been in Sl


because Briscoe at least has the potential. Using Briscoe now would be building to a winning team in the future much more than Peter Fox would

it makes perfect sense to [ithose with a basic grasp of English [/i

Fox isnt as good as Ade Gardner, hasnt acheived as much as Ade Gardner, he hasnt he experience of Ade Gardner, the only reason he is in the squad is idiots clamouring for [ianyone but [/iAde Gardner

Ade Gardner, Lee Smith, Ryan Hall, David Hodgeson, Chris Riley

well then as i said, he isnt one of the two best wingers in SL



there are only two choices there mate,

either we pick the best team we have, or we pick the best youngsters we have in the hope the experience will benefit them in international series in years to come?

what was the other option you thought i had given?


just to help you out a little, this links in with the point i had above,

either we pick the best we have, or we pick the best youngsters, Briscoe, Bridge, and Fox are neither,

Don't be stupid.

Fox is avarage at best. Briscoe on the other hand has the potential to be a top class player, and in my opinion (and in the opinion of quite a few others) he is already a better player. Fox is unlikely to get a look in after this year imo, so if Smith genuinely wants a team for the future then Briscoe is the sensible choice. The experience will help him to improve as a player, yes that will benefit Hull, but will also benefit England.

And as an aside, Ryan Hall hasn't played that many more games, why is he a shoe in if experience is such an issue?

At what level?

I am not be-littling Briscoe but I am afraid in my unbiased opinion Fox is much better than average at best. Its' an opinion shared by Tony Smith I'd muster.

I think Ryan Hall has played more games than Briscoe but even if he hasn't nobody came close to the form Ryan Hall showed this year. When it came to British wingers there was Hall.








a huge gap.



then the rest.

That's it, no more late night discussion with you. When you've finished smoking the weed and want a discussion tomorrow I will be happy to oblige but you should eat some biscuits and sleep it off.