It is a welcome 2 points but I thought it was a poor game played by two teams who had little idea in attack. Leeds problems are not over - just eased for a while. The forwards are decent and clearly the backs are excellent but when they have nobody leading them they can all look average.
There are quite a few teams desperately looking for a top half back who can organise a team. Surely Leeds should be near the top of the list of teams that can attract one. If they don't. I can see them struggling for some time yet.

I don't think anyone was comparing Lilley to Wally Lewis! Just saying that pace over the ground isn't always necessary for a half-back. Lewis, Andy Greg, Cronk, Sinfield were none of them fast, but they had that extra yard in the head. Lilley shows evidence of having a good football brain and skills, as well as a half-back's instinct to shout the odds to his teammates, and we've seen none of those things from Sutcliffe yet.

Agree....of the two Lilley is at least giving the appearance of being more of a half-back than Sutcliffe. He is not afraid to bark the orders and try pushing the envelope. Yes he seems to lack pace, but then players like Deacon or Dobson seemed to have made a decent enough stab at success in the game.... if not quite reaching the heights of Lewis or Cronk



He is also by far our most reliable goal kicker: that in itself is sufficient for him to be given a starting slot at the moment when there is such a paucity of ideas in attack. His goalkicks will be (and were) the difference between winning and more likely losing.

Sutcliffe is proving to be a big disappointment this season after showing so much promise last season.

Problem is both centres had to make 30 tackles to accomodate Burrow, was worth it last night but long term may be unfeasable

Hope you enjoyed your beer in Arcadia, shame about the weather. This forum, and yours, gives chance to have serious debates about RL or a more tongue in cheek viewpoint. Thankfully the mods on either board give free reign within reason. I have been on both boards like you say, partially on a wind up, but making an underlying point. I'm amused by the comments from some of your supporters at how good your support is and how bad everyone else's is. It would appear some of your lot have selective eyesight, and are prepared to overlook many poor followings from your fans over the last few years. It's not just Hull, every club has matches where a disappointing number of supporters travel, but some of the outrageous claims from a minority of Hull fans are laughable. One of your fellow Hull fans remarked I may be too young to remember when they REALLY did have a great following, the truth is, I've probably seen Hull in more finals than a large number of your supporters. As a kid is was fascinated by the way Hull could take over opponents grounds, and I adopted them as my 2nd team. I was there at Wembley for the famous all Hull final, and I was there at Elland Road when they beat Widnes in the replay in front of a packed house. I've seen them at Headingley in Premiership finals with nearly 30,000 there, so if your opinion of me is one of a Hull hater, you're well wide of the mark. A number of your fans live in the past and are prepared to just bang on how about great their support is while dismissing other teams fans. They are probably the first to go missing when less than a couple of hundred travel to certain games and then delete it from their memory bank. Overall Hull are still a big club with good support, just not as great as some make out.

Don't think people are comparing him to Lewis just saying Lewis lacked pace.

A better comparison would be Andy Gregory, and if he turns out even 75% as good has him I'd take that.

In terms of their respective strengths (and this isn't a comparison in terms of ability) there's a balance with Lilley and Sutcliffe a little reminiscent of Andy Gregory and Tony Myler.

Gregory wasn't the quickest, had a pretty ordinary passing game (he could only pass accurately in one direction) but he knew how to get a team around the park. Myler was the rangy, well balanced ball carrier with a bit of a kicking game but not much of an organiser. Put the two of them together though, and it worked.

A half-back pairing is all about balance. One needs to complement the other in terms of their strengths and weaknesses.

Was it just me, or did Achurch actually look scared to run the ball in? Everytime he got the ball, he ran sideways to try and go round the defenders - he's a big unit... Smash it up the middle ya big soft sod...
He looked like he was actively avoiding the ball - sitting behind the play the ball, dropping so deep he had others players between him and the ball... Then when it did come, it was like watching the under 8's and seeing the poor little kids that are terrified to get tackled so run away from everyone and then end up just throwing the ball anywhere..
Maybe all his injuries and general 'biscuitness' have eroded all confidence in his body to take the hits... Getting him off the wage bill cannot come quick enough.

Achurch played the full 80 didn't he? He made 33 tackles, yet Keinhorst outside him made 32.

Very rare in RL that your centre will do near as dammit the same amount of tackles as the 2nd rower inside him, especially if he played the full 80 and it was played in conditions that weren't suitable for the ball to be going wide.

He didn't do the full 80, went off after about 60 I think.

Andy Gregory was quick enough at Lilley's age - Lilley has none to begin with. Anyone suggesting Cooper Cronk had/has no pace can't have seen him run down Valentine Holmes and match Moses Mbye stride for stride over 70 metres in recent matches.

What Lilley did last night for his try was react well to a poor pass and was alert enough to collect a ricochet from a failed attempt to get the kick through. Burrow was my man of the match, followed by Jones-Buchanan, Hardaker and Keinhorst.

As Scott Taylor pointed out with Jon Wells' Hull were aiming Frank Pritchard at Sutcliffe three in, defending there with Lilley outside and Watkins four in on the inside and people wonder what's blunting his attacking play. Making 30 tackles a game won't help.

I thought Garbutt, and Mullally were immense yesterday, Garbutt was also immense against Salford too.

Can't say i noticed

Mullally imense , i guess you are having a laugh

As has been pointed out Lilley has speed of thought and quick reactions and has that cheeky half back attitude so lacking in Sutcliffe and deserved his MOM.

As for Watkins he has lost the edge of his pace and sharpness which is all too evident in most matches long before he makes many tackles.

Garbutt was very good. Mullally was awful, and can't believe the stick Achurch is getting comparison. Although one good thing of Mullally he gets down and up quickly for a play the ball.

As usual on here it either has to be from one extreme to the other.

Mullally was neither immense nor awful. He had an ok game, some good stuff and some stuff to work on. Coming into the season around 4th/5th prop he's doing a decent job and signs he can improve further with more games and experience. At 24 he's still quite young in prop terms and only has roughly around the same amount of SL games as Sutcliffe under his belt.

i agree he was decent and did as well as you would expect for a player we bought as a project really.

On Achurch, he gets stick because he is paid big money and still fails to deliver big performances.He actually wasn't terrible to be fair last night but the one off load aside, was no more than average again.

That is because it is s message board, of opinions, and your opinion is no more right than anyone else's, no matter how much you want to think it is.

On the season you are correct, but the posts were about last night, about last night only, so why does a point about the season come in to it.

Didn't say it was more right did I? Or shall I ask you to quote me saying that as you love asking that? I gave my opinion that people go to extremes when judging players performances.....now untwist your knickers Mr Sensitive because as we know on here when it comes to someone thinking his opinion is more right or near as dammit a fact then you take the biscuit.



It's a message board, I didn't realise that after commenting on his performance last night that I couldn't extend my view on how he's gone on so far in the season. Or do I need your permission to do that?

Oops! Here we go again. More 'handbags'

At least we're discussing rugby on a rugby forum, and not talking about our building of children toys AirFix models.

You could have fooled me ....



Hornby will be thinking "if only" ..... those halcyon, profitable days are long gone.

Wouldn't take much, just a sensible comment of rugby usually does the trick. Like you being flabbergasted at the thought of signing a proven Kiwi international in Leuluai but continually asking for Golding to play HB even though you've never see him play there.

Are you going to play with your train set, scalextrics or action man figures tonight?

Leuluai would be a desperation signing ...Leeds should be looking to do much better. Golding is worth a shot at HB, IMO...that's all. Just an opinion.

I don't have a train set, scalextric or action man...but if you fancy joining me for a game of crossfire I could make a place for you....if you promise to leave your handbag at home