Momentum shifted a lot, result in doubt until about 5 mins from time, plenty of tries.

I'd say it was pretty entertaining. I agree it was not high quality.

Am I the only one who didn't really think our 'amazing' 25 minutes at the beginning really were that amazing? We were ok..good, even, but we wouldn't have been 16-0 up to a better team on that performance. We benefitted tremendously at the beginning from Saints lack of confidence.

We're not doing badly, or awfully as a team, and I think we're WAY too critical after every loss, but the truth is if we're aiming for a Top 2 League spot, and a win against an in-form Wigan, we can't look to the first 25 minutes as 'great' rugby league.

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After the saints first try in the second half I didn't think the result was in doubt!!!

I couldn't understand why we persisted with one man rugby down the middle channel for so long during the game. Saints moved the ball around a lot more and I think it told in the 2nd half because we looked knackered.

You are right, and as i said in an earlier post with all the ball we were gifted in the first quarter we should have built up a 30 point lead and had the game out of sight.We didnt and got punished.

Thankfuly this season we have racked up plenty of points early and even if we lose our next 2 against Wigan and Hull, our steady run in and no cup involvment should mean a comfortable top 4 finish.However that should not detract from the fact that we should have got the job done tonight from 16 points up against a busted Saints at home.Mcdermott should be giving both barrels at training this week and hopefully we will get a response against Wigan.

Sinfield was absolutely terrible in that game.

As said before Sinfield, McGuire and Burrow are poor at the moment.
Sinfield is falling off tackles and is creating nothing.
McGuire has no pace and equally creates nothing.
Burrow is not an 80 minute hooker and runs around like a clockwork mouse.
McShane and Sutcliffe in with Burrow or McGuire "rested" would have been better.
The forwards are very poor and Delaney should not have played yet he was the only one running it in.
Hardaker and JJB both responsible for giving away tries.
Hall has to stop doing that pathetic dance from side to side when running at people.
But he is dangerous from 10 yards out.
Bailey went ok other than that Burrow does not bring his forwards onto the ball.
All in all a pish poor performance against a very average Saints side who had more desire to win tonight.
How many start are we getting against Wigan on Sunday 30 or 40?

hopefully we will get a response against Wigan.
Don't hold your breath.

And so it begins....

Im not.

But in the great scheme of things i also wont be losing any sleep because however many we may lose by i know my team will show up when it matters in September and October

Awful game from both teams start to finish. A half decent team would have been 30 up after half an hour. That's the worst Saints team I have ever seen.

We are lacking energy at the moment and our inability to pass right is frustrating. If I was Kallum I'd want out as soon as and it'd be justified.

Saints will struggle to make the 8 on what I have seen recently. Leeds need to find something from somewhere otherwise Wigan will score 50 or so next week too.

On the plus side, Vickery played well though

Regards Burrow bringing forwards onto the ball.Nearly every ball he gives is a flat crash ball.Great when you are on the front foot on the back of quick play the balls but some real hospital passes are being given at times.

The fact that Delaney plays on the right and never passes the ball, or hasn't got any offload game to speak of doesn't halp.

Good things: Bailey
JJB


Bad things: Sinfield, Vickery, Hardaker, our painful defence, our awful kicking game

I Have to say Achurch looks like he has a bit of potential in the offloading department and i would be tempted to give him a run in the backrow and encourage him to promote the ball.

What the hell did Vickery do wrong?



Also, our kicking game was very good in general. Neither of those were the reason we lost. Anyone who uses Vickery as a scapegoat clearly has a black mark next to his name due to earlier performances.

You shouldn't have to rely on a 2nd rower passing the ball to get it to your prize centre. There were 2 occasions when we were 4 behind where the ball was begging to be spread right but we went down a crowded left hand blind side and up a blind alley.

Burrow messed up too. Clarkson ran a lovely crash line taking 3 defender out of play to leave the Watkins sweeping round the outside 2 on 1. What did Burrow do?.. Give the suicide ball to Clarkson.

Agreed.

Others near me blamed Vickery for that moment in the 1st half when he played the ball and Watkins picked up with his foot on the sideline.....even after watching the reply on the big screen.

His lack of pace is an abvious weakness and every time he's played this season teams have targeted him, he offers no threat with the ball, and if a break is made down his side there's no chance of him getting back to cover, see the Makinson try as an example. You're right he isn't the reason we lost, but I find it bizare how he can considered better than the other option at the club.

I don't disagree, I just think we'd look so much more threatening with the ball if we had a back rower who could link up up with the centres (like Manu did today, and Ablett did with Moon earlier in the season.

Our defence atm is a big concern. Earlier in the season it looked excellent but in recent Weeks it looks fragile near our own line.
I thought tonight we looked good early on and our attack crisper than last week, but tonight was a great example of how momentum can change in a game. Saints got some possession in our half on the back of some penalties, weak defence led to a couple of tried and I didn't think we managed to get the momentum back for the rest of the game.
Still a long way to go in the season and these kind of defeats mean little come Sept Oct.

Watkins is as quick as 99% of anyone in the league and he struggled to keep up. Hall wouldn't have faired any better had it gone that way. To me, he was targeted but stood up to the challenge all night and looked good returning the ball. The reason he offered nothing in attack was the same reason Hall also offered nothing in attack.... It's because We didn't pass the ball to our 2 or 5 once all night! To me, that's an awful use of our players, especially when we are weaker down the middle at the moment.

Perfect Summary.In no way was he the sole reason we lost but the fact is he isnt good enough and part of the frustration from most of the fans is that he is prefered to a younger prospect who could surely at least match the levels that Vickery is showing in the Leeds colours.

Harrigan, this.....



He takes the ball in like Mark Calderwood!



He doesn't have the ability for Super League for me, his defence is sketchy to say the least! He gave up on one of the Saints try's tonight, he let his centre do his work for him