Burrow remains the most dangerous player at Leeds whatever position he's played in. He's a game breaker and we would be in a much, much worse position without him.

Any team would be desperate to have his talents.

I remain convinced of his qualities at scrum half. Tomy Smith and Brain McLennan were happy with those qualities. Brian McDermott doesn't seem to be (well, some weeks he is).

Of course, he's been helped by playing with a quality stand off and play making loose forward (why don't we go back to that) but he has that x-factor that no other player in the league (bar Tomkins) let alone Leeds has.

Without him last year, we don't reach the grand final let alone win it.

To let him leave would be a great blow to the team.

Another way of looking at it is. He isn't the best scrum half at the club, and neither is he the best hooker at the club. In truth he isn't in the top 5 in super league in either of those positions anymore.

As both positions are regarded as pivots, and pivotal to a teams success, when you consider we are a salary capped sport, is there really room for a luxury odd job player?

Another way of looking at it, a more sane way of looking at it, is he IS the best scrum half at the club and he IS the best hooker at the club.

I'm going to have my cake and eat it here I know but Tony Smith and Brian McLennan regarded him as the best scrum half at the club. Coach Mcdermott regards him as the best hooker at the club, based upon team selections.

And didn't he just get capped by England?

I think you do burrow a dis service calling him a odd job player. Yes there are better traditional HB out there but burrow is a genuine game breaker and would be a loss to our squad. As G1 said without burrow we wouldn't have made the grand final let alone win it last year.

Gotcha, is Sam Tomkins really the best full back in the league? He's terrible under the high ball.

He's certainly the best player in the league right now.

Nope he isn't. But he is the best fullback Wigan have.

To back up your argument. I never thought Lockyer was the best fullback in the world either, or the best stand off.

But then again, you can't really compare a 2012 Burrow with either of those players mentioned.

I asked the question, not labelled it. Thanks for agreeing on the point though about better traditional half backs.

Oh, and Burrow coming on as an "odd Job" game breaker won us the GF last year. Buderus was the one who got us to the grand final, Burrow was not a key player in getting there. You see we went with a specialist hooker, and a better player starting at half back.

Smith and McLennan will no doubt be very proud to hear that I agree with them, on that point at least.


Burrow still has that blistering pace and the unerring nose for follow-up, plus that jaw-dropping ability to duck under or jink round and away he goes.
All he needs is an organising General at, say LF ... let me see now, ah yes, Sinfield would fit that bill very nicely.
(I'm not sure but I may have mentioned it before).

As for hooker ... when Diskin left, it must have been because he didn't see where fitted as, seemingly, Buderus was the present and McShane and/or Hood was the future ... I'm not normally one for turning the clock back but I'd have Diskin back, no bother, while we grow someone into the role for the future.
I rather suspect, given the situation at Odsal, he could be tempted by an offer.
He'd boost our defence no end.

I'd have Diskin back at Headingley too. Diskin and McShane. Hood to develop into the Role for the Future.

I think there is a problem labelling a player into a position. The number on someone's back should only be a guide as to what they would be doing. Burrow may not tick all the boxes of a conventional scrum half, and may not tick all the boxes of a conventional hooker, but he ticks a hell of a lot of boxes in things that matter in a game of rugby league. Things like breaks, tackle busts, assists. Whilst posessing these things, and also not showing up too badly in the negative side of things I think you can say he's a damn good rugby player who makes an impact. If he has deficiencies in his game, then someone else should be able to make up for it with their abilities. there arent many Darren Lockyers to go around.

Now Rob has had his Benefit, he could take the same kind of view as Mat Diskin.
" I have been messed about in terms of selection / position, I've got my tax-free lump sum, I will go where I have been promised a definite role in a successful side."
I tend to think, however that we are at an early stage in negotiations - the nature of which GH will be becoming familiar with - a player looking for a good deal for his final years and the club looking to keep some space for new signings to rejuvenate the squad.

This.

Modern rugby league players are hugely interchangeable, as are their positions.

Who is a better FB than Tomkins in SL? I'm not disputing his weaknesses but they're isn't anyone better at this point.

As for Lockyer I really can't think of a better FB or SO at the time he played in either position.

As for Burrow, he's one of the best in the league, he wins games and does things no other player can and has done for years now. He's won matches playing in the halves or at hooker. He should go down as a legend for what he's achieved and for his ability.

Whilst I know we released Diskin from his contract, that piece of paper does have some validity and I doubt Leeds would do the same were Burrow to say he was off to a more vexatious club like, I dunno, Wigan.

When is Burrow contracted until?

I am almost certain that him and Danny are contracted up to the end of 2013.So probably negotiations have just started.I cant see any problem with McGuire not signing a new deal as he is next in line for a testimonial

Not surprisingly I disagree with he is the best hooker/scrum half - what he is is the best strike player we have and outside of Tomkins possibly the best strike player in SL.

If he went it would be a blow but not terminal - and without Buderus post the CC we would not have got to OT, without Burrow we would not have won it quite so easily.

Quote ="lionarmour87"I am almost certain that him and Danny are contracted up to the end of 2013. '" McGuire contracted to 2009 : news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 267347.stm Burrow contracted to 2010 : news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 070100.stm then both contracted to 2013 : news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 463015.stm

Quote ="lionarmour87"I am almost certain that him and Danny are contracted up to the end of 2013. '" McGuire contracted to 2009 : news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 267347.stm Burrow contracted to 2010 : news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 070100.stm then both contracted to 2013 : news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 463015.stm

Quote ="tvoc"McGuire contracted to 2009 : news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 267347.stm Burrow contracted to 2010 : news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 070100.stm then both contracted to 2013 : news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 463015.stm'" cheers

Quote ="tvoc"McGuire contracted to 2009 : news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 267347.stm Burrow contracted to 2010 : news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 070100.stm then both contracted to 2013 : news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 463015.stm'" cheers

Gotcha - you can't have watched much of Lockyer at fullback if you didn't see he was clearly the best in the world for several years.

Didn't really work out that well for him did it. Ended up sharing the hooking role with a far inferior player for a poor club who are on the brink of going out of business. Still, he was captain

I think you have misread my post. He was the best player in the world for several years.

Just not the best full back or stand off - your exact words. So presumably there were at least two better players?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say thats not what he was meaning. If you define players in rigid terms of what makes a good fullback, or a good stand off, some exceptional players will fall into neither camp. Players like Burrow or Tompkins have flaws in their game which means they would probably not fit into the pre-defined role, but their abilities are such that you have to have them in your team.

A similar argumnet could be made about Sinfield as a stand off and a loose forward

Thank you Eagle. I even said in reply to Gareth, "to back up your argument", which was exactly what you are saying.

Lockyer WAS the best full back in the world. Not the best 'player' in some general sense (which I'm not even sure means anything). The best full back. Easily the best attacking fullback of his era, and not too shabby in defence either.

As a stand off, I'd argue he was the best in the world for a year or so, but never as dominant as he was at fullback. His last two seasons saw him lose his pace, but not his ability to control the attack.