Think you’re missing my point.

Was it you at Hull last week?

We don’t have a better squad because 3 of the high level players have left during the season.

If that's referring to Leeming, Austin and Macdonald then your clutching at straws. Two have gone in the last month when the season was already done.

He was hoping you'd forgotten that

I think it’s surprising what a difference a few different players make to a result like yesterday.

Individual errors and a lack of kick pressure were the main difference by all accounts early on: we apply better pressure to Wigan early and tire them out in the heat it could be a very different game.

We don’t have those difference-making players yet. I still think we might need a 9 as well as a 7.

Are you blaming Smith for him not returning? I don't think anyone saw that coming.

Well, at least we tried hard...

Actually, I think that's part of the problem. We think we try hard, but actually were not doing the 1%ers that make the difference. We know this team has errors in it, lots of them, but we don't appear to be working on technique or decision making to stop those errors from happening. Coming off the field gassed isn't the only measure of working hard.

Well….
You can’t go up against a well drilled, motivated and red hot team in the goons and just not do the basics correctly.

There are massive mitigating factors that put us in this position to start with players out / injured / AWOL.
Younger squad players thrust into the team when not quite ready.
And of course a very lopsided, miss-firing team in general.

We’ve been off the pace ALL season, we squandered pre season on gimmicks, we haven’t put one 80min performance in yet with x2 games to go and we’ve taken shortcuts when we really shouldn’t have.

Is this all smiths fault? No.
Is this all Hetherington’s fault? No.
This is a culmination of years of poor club decisions stretching back nearly a decade.
We’ve complained for a while about deadwood in the team and tbf to Rohan he’s certainly bottomed out the team just as we asked, this has to be the low point in this process as more performances like that are understandable but unacceptable.
He now needs heavily backing getting decent difference making leaders and players in and rebuilding from scratch. This has been needed for a long while, it’s painful but it’s badly needed.

Well it was his signing but we have a history of these type of players

No it was not me , fortunately i can't make Saturdays , my point was you saying it is just a game !

Good balanced post that. Completely agree.

Yep, me too

The only part of Swarcliffe's post I'd take issue with is saying its not all GH's fault but then pointing out its the culmination of poor decisions back almost a decade. While not "all" his fault clearly the bulk of the blame for that period has to go with the senior decision-maker who has been there the whole time? I genuinely can't think of many big decisions that he's made in recent years that have been good in the long term (unless you include getting rid of coaches he appointed in the first place before we actually got relegated)?

I'm still going to back Smith for next season, as I think we have to show some sense of long-term focus. I only hope the players leaving during the season - which I think must be almost unique in modern history at Leeds? - is just part of the bottoming out process and not a sign of something worse with him as coach.

I do think RS can be better judged either way next season. With his men in, his idea of dead wood largely gone, a full pre-season then we really need to be better next season.

We won’t get as many chances like this to sweep a broom through and have as much cap/quota/marquee available in one season and we need to see the master plan emerging.

We also need those spine players here and in training from the start of pre-season.

Christopher can't see much wrong with anything. Let me tell him the whole club on the pitch side is an utter embarrassment and will b until Hetherington pis£ies off. Penny pinching old Draconian git he is.

We weren`t doing that well when they were here and like it`s already been said 2 of our better players left the club less than 3 weeks ago.
So basically we are saying we have a better squad now but have failed to make the play offs this year but got to a GF with an inferior squad last season admittedly both squads coached by Smith.

There's a saying you can't polish a turd but you can wrap it in glitter I believe that is the coaches job but Rohan is fresh out of glitter.

My issue is... what If things don't improve next season? Then we have to go through yet another "rebuilding phase" the season after.... vicious circle...

That’s sport for you, we could change all the players and all the coaching staff and still have a bad season, there is no guarantees.

You're right, there are no guarantees in sport. All you can do from CEO to scholarship player is work as hard as you can to improve. I'm not sure that enough of our players, coaching team or the CEO himself could answer that question honestly with a "yes, I've done everything I can to help us to improve".

In professional sport, the harder you work, the luckier you become. Too many at Leeds are resting on their laurels or just don't recognise what hard work actually is.

Poor day at the office it happens - the Cas hammering etc.

My concern is that the players don't appear to be improving under Smith. I accept we have a poor squad but it rarely performs to its potential. I would be very vary of filling the squad with players that Smith wants - we need to think will he be here. We only have to look across to Beeston to see what happens when you do this.

Lots of players have improved under Smith, and most of his signings have been good - even the second string signings have done a job, Olpherts aside. Some players have improved and then gone backwards (Bentley), or have been unable to arrest their decline for some reason (Oledski). The squad looks shot right now given some high profile injuries (unavoidable) as well as several departures that should have been better managed. It's easy to blame one or two individuals (i.e. Smith) but in reality it is probably a lot messier and multi-faceted.

I can handle results like Saturday's if the first team is genuinely moving in the right direction. The signs are cautiously positive for recruitment and retention but we're obviously missing at least two big signings, and a third if Nene is not coming back (which doesn't look promising). Whoever wears the shirt next week, whatever the opposition, we need to see a reaction performance - and for what remains of the season.

I agree with ESR. Individually I think there is only Wardle in that team who is a stand otu international. Possibly French if he was British & Havard if he was fit. Otherwise it is stacked with good quality SL players, not a patch on years gone by. What they have is unbelievable team spirit, a consistent side & look, as Phil Clarke mentioned, like they have been training together for a season. Huge credit must go to Matt Peet, who has done a brilliant job. Man for man, Leeds are not that much different, apart from probably stand off & FB.

Our depth is better in a number of positions to cover injuries everywhere except halfback. What we couldn't handle is players leaving as well. Not excusing earlier performances, but right now I think the team is in far worse shape in terms of available players than some would like to admit.

Of the team vs Wigan maybe only 10 will be in the first 17 next year - Fusitu'a, Newman, Martin (somewhere), Handley, Oledzki, O'Connor, Holroyd, Lisone, McDonnell, Smith. So a completely new 1,6 and 7 and maybe a centre and another front row to come, plus Bentley, Goudemand and Sangare to add.

The problem we have to the end of the season is that 1,6 and 7 are the most important players there are. Hooley may be passable but I can't see us doing much more than compete gamely at best from now on in. The squad is busted, has nothing to play for and in some positions we're beyond reserves. I don't like Gannon or Martin in the backs, but I'm not sure what other options we really have?