|
 |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Club Captain | 1421 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Oct 2015 | 9 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Oct 2021 | Oct 2021 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="leedsnsouths"Possibly, but how much are players going to improve if we just send them on dual reg to be coached in a part time team, often by a part time coach, how good could players like say Liam Hood or Alex Forster (who both looked good on the few opportunities they got) have been if they had stayed at Leeds?
guess we will never know.
Liam hood was one I thought really could have come through when first saw him
'" |
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 1439 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Sep 2014 | 10 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Apr 2019 | Feb 2019 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="ThePrinter"Minns wasn't ignored. He got a few games in 2013. We might have injuries now but Watkins and Moon barely a miss any games in 2013. Then he got sent on a season long loan to London just like Ablett and BJB did and then to Featherstone, unfortunately for him the likes of Keinhorst and Handley had chances and impressed and they're obviously keen on Golding so you can't have too many reserve backs in a 25 man squad. Just timing.
Delaney was always a centre in the NRL, but yes he wasn't very good there for us in 2010 but still the decision had to be made to move him and play a younger player at centre. Watkins might have been a shoe in to eventually be a starter but like I said he could've easily gone with Smith on the wing instead. As for BJB being lined up by McClennen, he had about half a dozen appearances and then got sent to Harlequins on loan.....exact same path as Minns but you called that being ignored by McDermott.
And I don't say McDermott's trusts youth, but he doesn't this dislike or problem with them some try and portray.
Also Sinfield in 2000, the CC took place early in the season then and he started half of the several games we had on the bench so had to saying he was our best player that season at the point of the final.
Powell did play youth, he picked McGuire for the 2003 CC Semi classic vs Saints when he turned the game around......he wasn't picked for the final though.'"
Minns was unlucky in the players he had in front of him, but we didn't even put him in our 25 man squad, that HAS to have been an oversight by Mac, as Peacock was quick to bring him to Hull KR with him
Im not saying he dislikes youth (but he does clearly dislike Baldwinson), but he doesn't back the nearly enough and would rather put square pegs into square holes
Delaney definitely played second row at gold coast, but may have played centre as well sometimes, I didn't watch much NRL back then
I do remember that Sinfield was man of the match in the CC semi in 2000 and also in the game before the final iirc
Powell did drop Mcguire, but it was in place of Burrow, not some older guy picked because of his name, he was still picking players on form, he also picked Bailey Calderwood Diskin Walker and Ward, perhaps if he had gone one more and picked Mcguire over Dunneman the we would have won that game |
|
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 11412 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Sep 2010 | 14 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Feb 2021 | Jul 2019 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
|
Quote ="leedsnsouths"Minns was unlucky in the players he had in front of him, but we didn't even put him in our 25 man squad, that HAS to have been an oversight by Mac, as Peacock was quick to bring him to Hull KR with him
Im not saying he dislikes youth (but he does clearly dislike Baldwinson), but he doesn't back the nearly enough and would rather put square pegs into square holes
Delaney definitely played second row at gold coast, but may have played centre as well sometimes, I didn't watch much NRL back then
I do remember that Sinfield was man of the match in the CC semi in 2000 and also in the game before the final iirc
Powell did drop Mcguire, but it was in place of Burrow, not some older guy picked because of his name, he was still picking players on form, he also picked Bailey Calderwood Diskin Walker and Ward, perhaps if he had gone one more and picked Mcguire over Dunneman the we would have won that game'"
Rugby League Project has Delaney listed as starting centre in every single game he played in the NRL. Also shows you that he used to kick goals for Parramatta and Gold Coast sometimes.....46 from 66 attempts.
Here he is wearing the number 4 centre shirt and landing a conversion from near the touch line just like Sinfield
Skip to 11:15
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Xi4iInEkUQI
Should've had him kicking against Warrington on the opening night instead of Hardaker. |
|
Quote ="leedsnsouths"Minns was unlucky in the players he had in front of him, but we didn't even put him in our 25 man squad, that HAS to have been an oversight by Mac, as Peacock was quick to bring him to Hull KR with him
Im not saying he dislikes youth (but he does clearly dislike Baldwinson), but he doesn't back the nearly enough and would rather put square pegs into square holes
Delaney definitely played second row at gold coast, but may have played centre as well sometimes, I didn't watch much NRL back then
I do remember that Sinfield was man of the match in the CC semi in 2000 and also in the game before the final iirc
Powell did drop Mcguire, but it was in place of Burrow, not some older guy picked because of his name, he was still picking players on form, he also picked Bailey Calderwood Diskin Walker and Ward, perhaps if he had gone one more and picked Mcguire over Dunneman the we would have won that game'"
Rugby League Project has Delaney listed as starting centre in every single game he played in the NRL. Also shows you that he used to kick goals for Parramatta and Gold Coast sometimes.....46 from 66 attempts.
Here he is wearing the number 4 centre shirt and landing a conversion from near the touch line just like Sinfield
Skip to 11:15
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Xi4iInEkUQI
Should've had him kicking against Warrington on the opening night instead of Hardaker. | |
|
|
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 11412 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Sep 2010 | 14 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Feb 2021 | Jul 2019 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="leedsnsouths"Minns was unlucky in the players he had in front of him, but we didn't even put him in our 25 man squad, that HAS to have been an oversight by Mac, as Peacock was quick to bring him to Hull KR with him'"
Just on this point. If Peacock upon retirement had stayed at Leeds in the same role he's doing at HKR, do you think he'd have brought or even tried to bring Thomas Minns back to Headingley? I think we all know the answer is no.
Also with regards to you praising Wane for giving youngsters a chance. Wane when he first took over gave games to youngsters by the name of
Joe Mellor - Widnes
Jack Hughes - Warrington
Matty Russell - Warrington
Logan Tomkins - Salford
James Greenwood - HKR
All doing well for SL teams after not getting too much of a sniff under Wane. The young FB who dropped that Sinfield bomb in 2012 Playoff called Jack Walker was never given a chance again. Ryan Hampshire made his debut for Wigan around the same time as Sutcliffe did for Leeds, yet only has around a third of Sutcliffe's appearances and Sutcliffe missed out on a increasing his total last year with his knee injury and Hampshire will probably be added to the list of those above. |
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 990 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Sep 2011 | 13 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Nov 2017 | Sep 2017 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
|
I always think Powell gets a bit of a pass on the youth front because of what he did at Leeds aswell. Who was/is the latest player he's brought through the cas academy? His team is full of cast-off and imo the be at youngsters in manikin and Springer have come from elsewhere.
|
|
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 18064 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="ThePrinter"Just on this point. If Peacock upon retirement had stayed at Leeds in the same role he's doing at HKR, do you think he'd have brought or even tried to bring Thomas Minns back to Headingley? I think we all know the answer is no.
Also with regards to you praising Wane for giving youngsters a chance. Wane when he first took over gave games to youngsters by the name of
Joe Mellor - Widnes
Jack Hughes - Warrington
Matty Russell - Warrington
Logan Tomkins - Salford
James Greenwood - HKR
All doing well for SL teams after not getting too much of a sniff under Wane. The young FB who dropped that Sinfield bomb in 2012 Playoff called Jack Walker was never given a chance again. Ryan Hampshire made his debut for Wigan around the same time as Sutcliffe did for Leeds, yet only has around a third of Sutcliffe's appearances and Sutcliffe missed out on a increasing his total last year with his knee injury and Hampshire will probably be added to the list of those above.'"
What this illustrates is the quantity and quality of youngsters coming through at Wigan - that players of the quality of Russell and Hughes are deemed not good enough but can get a regular game in possibly the best team in SL.
Their academy is the best in SL and something that Leeds need to mirror if the depth of the squad is to be improved. |
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 18064 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Barrie's Glass Eye"I always think Powell gets a bit of a pass on the youth front because of what he did at Leeds aswell. Who was/is the latest player he's brought through the cas academy? His team is full of cast-off and imo the be at youngsters in manikin and Springer have come from elsewhere.'"
At Leeds he had limited options due to financial pressures, he also had a crop of incredibly talent youngsters and a club with limited expectations. The use of youth was much easier for him than say for McDermott where success is both needed and expected |
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 1439 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Sep 2014 | 10 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Apr 2019 | Feb 2019 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="ThePrinter"Just on this point. If Peacock upon retirement had stayed at Leeds in the same role he's doing at HKR, do you think he'd have brought or even tried to bring Thomas Minns back to Headingley? I think we all know the answer is no.
Also with regards to you praising Wane for giving youngsters a chance. Wane when he first took over gave games to youngsters by the name of
Joe Mellor - Widnes
Jack Hughes - Warrington
Matty Russell - Warrington
Logan Tomkins - Salford
James Greenwood - HKR
All doing well for SL teams after not getting too much of a sniff under Wane. The young FB who dropped that Sinfield bomb in 2012 Playoff called Jack Walker was never given a chance again. Ryan Hampshire made his debut for Wigan around the same time as Sutcliffe did for Leeds, yet only has around a third of Sutcliffe's appearances and Sutcliffe missed out on a increasing his total last year with his knee injury and Hampshire will probably be added to the list of those above.'"
Yea but Wigan just produce more players than we do, you must admit that he is more than ready to back a young player, either when someone leaves the club or when they have injuries. Unlike Mac who would rather play with no hooker than one from our academy.
Also if you look at someone like Gildart, he came into the team and was playing better than Gelling (a much more experienced player) so he KEPT his place, that rarely ever happens with Mcdermott
Even last week Mac decided to play Burrow and Mcguire instead of Lilly, now Lilly may not be playing amazingly, but he is the only proper organiser out of the the three, and we look a lot better in shape and structure when he is in the side |
|
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 7069 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Apr 2006 | 19 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Aug 2023 | Dec 2019 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
|
I think It says more about Mac that he didn't make a 19 year old kid play with injections.
|
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 1439 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Sep 2014 | 10 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Apr 2019 | Feb 2019 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="sgtwilko"I think It says more about Mac that he didn't make a 19 year old kid play with injections.'"
Actually I forgot he was injured, but lets see if he plays this week, especially with how poor our short kicking game was against Fev |
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 11412 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Sep 2010 | 14 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Feb 2021 | Jul 2019 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="leedsnsouths"Actually I forgot he was injured, but lets see if he plays this week, especially with how poor our short kicking game was against Fev'"
Doubt he'll play again this season unless needed and I can see him having some work done on his shoulder when the seasons finished. |
|
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 11412 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Sep 2010 | 14 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Feb 2021 | Jul 2019 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Sal Paradise"What this illustrates is the quantity and quality of youngsters coming through at Wigan - that players of the quality of Russell and Hughes are deemed not good enough but can get a regular game in possibly the best team in SL.
Their academy is the best in SL and something that Leeds need to mirror if the depth of the squad is to be improved.'"
So Jack Hughes, started as a 2nd row, then given the number 4 shirt at Wigan and converted to centre, goes on loan to Hudds and is played at 2nd row, voted their forward of the year and then is allowed to sign for a main rival and is going well again.....meanwhile Wigan sign Isa from Widnes and end up having to play Sutton, normally a prop, at 2nd row also.
If McDermott did that he'd be getting slagged off for a long time, but it's Wigan so it shows how great they do things.
Minns doesn't stay at Leeds in a position we have Watkins, Moon and Keinhorst and because he has an OK season at HKR who finished 11th and it's a massive oversight by McDermott to lose him.
Hughes is loaned out to Hudds and voted their forward of the year in a season they finish 3rd and now going strong for another title contender and they bring in Willie Isa and it's a great sign of how Wane and Wigan operate. |
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Club Captain | 2356 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Feb 2016 | 9 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Jun 2024 | Feb 2022 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="sgtwilko"I think It says more about Mac that he didn't make a 19 year old kid play with injections.'"
Yet he rushed Sutty back without a full pre-season & his weekly routine was re-hab -jabs -play repeat up until may.
He has woeful form with selecting injured players something he openly admits. |
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 9105 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Mar 2006 | 19 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Feb 2025 | Feb 2025 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Sal Paradise"What this illustrates is the quantity and quality of youngsters coming through at Wigan - that players of the quality of Russell and Hughes are deemed not good enough but can get a regular game in possibly the best team in SL.'"
I wouldn't argue that wigan don't produce good players but I would question their ability to retain them. I suspect that were Leeds to produce a Jack Hughes, and his position wasn't filled by someone better, he'd be a first team regular and not plying his trade with warrington. Our approach does mean that players of lesser abilities do get released without getting the fair crack of the whip that some would prefer however. |
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 9105 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Mar 2006 | 19 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Feb 2025 | Feb 2025 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="William Eve"I guess the alternative was to scrape into the Top 8 with nothing to play for apart from functioning as nuisance value against those clubs involved in the Top 4. '"
Precisely. Trip to Fev, what's not to like? It's about as close to a non-super league fixture that involves Leeds as we're likely to see and was, I felt, a refreshing alternative to another trip to Plastic Park. |
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 1439 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Sep 2014 | 10 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Apr 2019 | Feb 2019 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Clearwing"I wouldn't argue that wigan don't produce good players but I would question their ability to retain them. I suspect that were Leeds to produce a Jack Hughes, and his position wasn't filled by someone better, he'd be a first team regular and not plying his trade with warrington. Our approach does mean that players of lesser abilities do get released without getting the fair crack of the whip that some would prefer however.'"
If we produced a Jack Hughes we would have to hope that some of the senior second rowers got injured, because otherwise he would never get a game anyway
If he did, there would be no conscious effort to improve his skills except getting him to bulk up |
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 9105 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Mar 2006 | 19 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Feb 2025 | Feb 2025 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="leedsnsouths"If we produced a Jack Hughes we would have to hope that some of the senior second rowers got injured, because otherwise he would never get a game anyway
If he did, there would be no conscious effort to improve his skills except getting him to bulk up'"
Stevie Ward would be commanding a place in the second row now, were he not injured. So I'm not sure your first point stands scrutiny. Granted, he is a far better player than Hughes though.
What skills would you like to see improved in our second rowers? |
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 1439 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Sep 2014 | 10 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Apr 2019 | Feb 2019 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Clearwing"Stevie Ward would be commanding a place in the second row now, were he not injured. So I'm not sure your first point stands scrutiny. Granted, he is a far better player than Hughes though.
What skills would you like to see improved in our second rowers?'"
I have already mentioned that Ward has been an exception with Mac
Well just skills in general, I think Stevie Ward for example already was as skilful in the 19s as he is now, he has just bulked up so it is easier for him to break tackles, same with Watkins.
Ward specifically (if he stays at second row) could improve his line running to put himself through more gaps with late changes of direction at the line, if he does that then he will be Englands best back rower as it is the area he lags behind Whitehead and Farrell
More obvious areas in younger players are Golding and Handleys ability under the high ball, which was clearly a problem 2 years ago, but for some reason hasn't been properly addressed
Sutcliffe similarly could run and pass and grubber pretty well when he came through, but his last tackle options haven't improved since 2013 and if anything his ability to sum up an edge defence has got worse since last year
Which player has come through and actually improved in anyway except by just getting bigger? |
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 990 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Sep 2011 | 13 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Nov 2017 | Sep 2017 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
|
Singleton is much improved from the biff and barge raw prop he was on debut.
Watkins as well, in my opinion if not yours, he now runs some nice lines, and has different ways of putting his winger away than the one handed flick he relied on early on.
On the completely different end of the scale I think Burrow has become a bit more nuanced in the 9 role, obviously can't fulfil the defensive side, but has some nice craft around dummy half, particularly close to the line.
|
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 18064 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="ThePrinter"So Jack Hughes, started as a 2nd row, then given the number 4 shirt at Wigan and converted to centre, goes on loan to Hudds and is played at 2nd row, voted their forward of the year and then is allowed to sign for a main rival and is going well again.....meanwhile Wigan sign Isa from Widnes and end up having to play Sutton, normally a prop, at 2nd row also.
If McDermott did that he'd be getting slagged off for a long time, but it's Wigan so it shows how great they do things.
Minns doesn't stay at Leeds in a position we have Watkins, Moon and Keinhorst and because he has an OK season at HKR who finished 11th and it's a massive oversight by McDermott to lose him.
Hughes is loaned out to Hudds and voted their forward of the year in a season they finish 3rd and now going strong for another title contender and they bring in Willie Isa and it's a great sign of how Wane and Wigan operate.'"
I take your points many of which I agree with - one of the issues at Wigan is the sheer number of youngsters they produce and achieving the correct balance in the team. To do that they maybe have to make sacrifices in some areas and perhaps to accommodate Williams, Gildart, Sutton etc in the same side Hughes needed to be swapped out for Isa?
The other thing about Wigan they probably have another couple of Hughes' in the wings a luxury that Leeds simply don't have. |
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 11412 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Sep 2010 | 14 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Feb 2021 | Jul 2019 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Sal Paradise"I take your points many of which I agree with - one of the issues at Wigan is the sheer number of youngsters they produce and achieving the correct balance in the team. To do that they maybe have to make sacrifices in some areas and perhaps to accommodate Williams, Gildart, Sutton etc in the same side Hughes needed to be swapped out for Isa?
The other thing about Wigan they probably have another couple of Hughes' in the wings a luxury that Leeds simply don't have.'"
Why have they been playing a prop in Ryan Sutton there lately then? Had to sacrifice Hughes to keep some other youngsters who'll still be low earners in their squad and replace him with someone who'll be on just as much if not more? Please more like they had to sacrifice to bring back the likes of Joel Tomkins and Lee Mossop who are as guaranteed to walk into the team when fit just as much as Ablett is regardless of form of youngsters in their absence.
And Gildart, he isn't good enough long term to be at a top 4 club but his dad played at Wigan with Wane and you only have to read the Wigan forum to see what "jobs for the boys" culture is in place there.
Complaints when we sign overseas forwards but what nationalities are the likes of Isa, Tautai and Nu'uausala? Other forwards when fit, Bateman, Clubb, Flower, Joel Tomkins, Farrell, O'Loughlin.....either signed or came through the academy well before Wane's time. If fit the only Wane era academy forward who'd get in is Crosby.
As for this they try, more youngsters.....yes they do but they've had to replace more players than us usually. If the Tomkins brothers, Mossop, Burgess, Leuluai never left then they wouldn't be as many opportunities for them. At Leeds we have pretty small turnovers in terms of players leaving, last year our most significant for a while and for the Sinfield one we went for the academy option in Sutcliffe with Lilley given a 25 man squad shirt......and then most on here have been moaning like hell that we didn't go sign some Aussie.....you honestly can't win. |
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 9565 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| May 2002 | 23 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Dec 2019 | Dec 2019 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
|
I can understand the sentiment about BM not trying youngsters, but there isn't a single junior player who's left on his watch that there could be any serious regret about leaving. If anything that supports the argument that our youth development system is simply not producing enough quality.
If there were a bunch of ex Academy players starring elsewhere you could make the point, but there just aren't. Luke Gale is the only example I can think of, but given he came through at a time when we had Sinfield-Burrow-McGuire its hard to blame the club (or Gale) for him leaving.
Wigan are often cited as producing a lot of good players, but its interesting to see how many of them seem keen to jump ship at the first sniff of an RU/NRL contract. We haven't lost a club-produced player in that way since Lee Smith in 2009. In addition just like every other club Wigan seem happy to sign dodgy overseas players if there's a gap in the team.
|
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Star | 11412 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Sep 2010 | 14 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Feb 2021 | Jul 2019 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
|
Quote ="BrisbaneRhino"Wigan are often cited as producing a lot of good players, but its interesting to see how many of them seem keen to jump ship at the first sniff of an RU/NRL contract. We haven't lost a club-produced player in that way since Lee Smith in 2009.'"
And that isn't just luck, a lot work clearly goes on to identify the type of player who seems himself at Leeds long term.
www.therhinos.co.uk/tv/mcdermott ... 6vDZJB4WrU
Skip to the 6:00 minute mark and McDermott speaks about how they do things with regards signing young players and how it differs from most clubs in that we ask the players to make a pledge to the club first and and have some faith in the club and show the club some loyalty first, not the other way round. How we also missed out on some youngsters because other clubs threw more money at them and said they'll give you everything right away.
Also this from an interview a few years ago shows an insight into how he views things and it's obvious it's about a lot more than just what skills a player has on a rugby pitch, very much the person they're interested in not just the player.
"McDermott became head coach at Leeds in 2011 and he has since proved his ability to inspire even the finest players. Kevin Sinfield describes him as the best coach he's played for – and much of that success rests on McDermott's ability to get inside the heads of his diverse players. "In rugby league we're very technical and you spend so much time behind a laptop trying to work it all out. But that's not much use unless I know who my players truly are. I want to know where they're from, how they were brought up, whether they're married and have kids. I want to know how they treat their wife and kids. I want to know their views on religion and politics and adversity."
Whereas at Wigan I imagine Jack Hughes didn't last because he was probably reluctant to perform cannonball tackles and other sh*thouse tactics to Wane's desired standard. |
|
Quote ="BrisbaneRhino"Wigan are often cited as producing a lot of good players, but its interesting to see how many of them seem keen to jump ship at the first sniff of an RU/NRL contract. We haven't lost a club-produced player in that way since Lee Smith in 2009.'"
And that isn't just luck, a lot work clearly goes on to identify the type of player who seems himself at Leeds long term.
www.therhinos.co.uk/tv/mcdermott ... 6vDZJB4WrU
Skip to the 6:00 minute mark and McDermott speaks about how they do things with regards signing young players and how it differs from most clubs in that we ask the players to make a pledge to the club first and and have some faith in the club and show the club some loyalty first, not the other way round. How we also missed out on some youngsters because other clubs threw more money at them and said they'll give you everything right away.
Also this from an interview a few years ago shows an insight into how he views things and it's obvious it's about a lot more than just what skills a player has on a rugby pitch, very much the person they're interested in not just the player.
"McDermott became head coach at Leeds in 2011 and he has since proved his ability to inspire even the finest players. Kevin Sinfield describes him as the best coach he's played for – and much of that success rests on McDermott's ability to get inside the heads of his diverse players. "In rugby league we're very technical and you spend so much time behind a laptop trying to work it all out. But that's not much use unless I know who my players truly are. I want to know where they're from, how they were brought up, whether they're married and have kids. I want to know how they treat their wife and kids. I want to know their views on religion and politics and adversity."
Whereas at Wigan I imagine Jack Hughes didn't last because he was probably reluctant to perform cannonball tackles and other sh*thouse tactics to Wane's desired standard. | |
|
|
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Club Coach | 3479 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Dec 2004 | 20 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Apr 2019 | Mar 2019 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
| I've not read all this thread so apologies if i've missed something but...
If Wigan's academy and their coach are both so good then how come they never win anything?
If Leeds' academy is so poor and our coach is so bad (ignoring this season's injury ridden nightmare) how come we keep winning everything?
 |
|
|
| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 9565 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| May 2002 | 23 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Dec 2019 | Dec 2019 | LINK |
| Milestone Posts |
|
| Milestone Years |
|
|
| Location |
|
| Signature |
|
TO BE FIXED |
|
|
I think when we look back we'll see that McDermott was the right man at the right time to get the results out of the tail end of the Sinfield era team. That is a big achievement in itself - many coaches would have not been able to manage a group of very experienced and successful players in the way he has.
Where I have massive doubts is over whether BM can build a team himself. This year the wheels have fallen off big time, and the coach has to shoulder responsibility for that, just as he deserves plaudits when things go well. IMO he should be replaced at the end of this year, but like others I believe he'll stay. I'm just not sure I see any evidence from either BM or the club more broadly that there is much in the way of planning going on, or that he is the sort of coach able to mould a new winning team.
|
|
|
|
|
|
