Very true. One of the greatest in my lifetime, Wally Lewis was pretty slow yet a genius with the ball in his hands.

Thought you deserved the win, as you were smarter with the ball and much more disciplined, we should have killed the game after halftime when we were in control and causing you loads of problems through the middle.

Burrow is real threat from acting half and needs to stay there, maybe a tough win is what you needed we did that against Rovers and we kicked in from there.

For the first time, I could see the future for Galloway in this team. He dominated some big opposition last night.

That's always the argument people trot out with Lewis. It's true, he wasn't going to run the length but he had deceptive pace over 10-20 metres and could leave defenders flat footed. All that's needed for a half. He was also built like a tank and could run like one.

Couldn't fault the effort from both sides in a very entertaining game. We probably wanted it more, Hull were better organised with the ball I thought but we managed to put more pressure on them and we matched their big men. Everybody got stuck in.
The issues this season for me have been around linking backs and forwards together and looking like we know what we are doing with the ball. The conditions gave us a game where that issue was not a major factor.
Lots of the guys really gave everything last night, Hardaker was fantastic, really stood up. Burrow was a menace from dummy half and I thought Keinhorst was excellent, particularly in the first half.

The conditions definitely suited the team that were struggling to be effective with the ball but who were desperate to win a home game. You don't often hope for a wet summer but ......

Didn't see the game and cannot imagine Leeds have suddenly turned things around in a high quality game, though perhaps someone will chip in and confirm that it was all those things and more?



Well done Leeds - a much needed win in circumstances where two points matter more than the performance.

As for the Jordan Lilley V Wally Lewis comparison above?

Oh dear

My view on the halves is that Sutcliffe gets slated because he runs the ball to much but doesn't run a game and get involved enough.

Lilley gets stick because he is small and lacks pace and has little running threat.

Between the two of them there is enough to make a good pairing. get the forwards on the front foot and give them a good run in the team before writing the pair off for leaving attributes the other has

You might actually have enjoyed it. Some very big lads, some very big collisions. Despite the conditions both sides controlled the ball well. Fast game as well.
Leeds did look relatively clueless near the Hull line (although Keinhorst's try was real quality - even on a dry night), Hull were much better organised, but both sides defended very well.

Is Lilley the new Paul Deacon? With blood streaming from his face it was slightly reminiscent of a certain incident involving Nigel Vagana (although thankfully not as bad).

No pace, good kicker, small of stature...

Then again, has anyone else noticed he seems to have the facial features of Graham Holroyd?

The pace that really matters is the speed of thought that is what separates the top players from the rest. SInfield was never the quickest around the park but he was one of the quickest in assessment of a situation that is what made him a great player.

McGuire has scored heaps of tries by being in the right place at the right time that is not a fluke that is about mental agility and being able to read the game. Raw speed is a great asset but it is not what separates the best players from the rest

It is a welcome 2 points but I thought it was a poor game played by two teams who had little idea in attack. Leeds problems are not over - just eased for a while. The forwards are decent and clearly the backs are excellent but when they have nobody leading them they can all look average.
There are quite a few teams desperately looking for a top half back who can organise a team. Surely Leeds should be near the top of the list of teams that can attract one. If they don't. I can see them struggling for some time yet.

I don't think anyone was comparing Lilley to Wally Lewis! Just saying that pace over the ground isn't always necessary for a half-back. Lewis, Andy Greg, Cronk, Sinfield were none of them fast, but they had that extra yard in the head. Lilley shows evidence of having a good football brain and skills, as well as a half-back's instinct to shout the odds to his teammates, and we've seen none of those things from Sutcliffe yet.

Agree....of the two Lilley is at least giving the appearance of being more of a half-back than Sutcliffe. He is not afraid to bark the orders and try pushing the envelope. Yes he seems to lack pace, but then players like Deacon or Dobson seemed to have made a decent enough stab at success in the game.... if not quite reaching the heights of Lewis or Cronk



He is also by far our most reliable goal kicker: that in itself is sufficient for him to be given a starting slot at the moment when there is such a paucity of ideas in attack. His goalkicks will be (and were) the difference between winning and more likely losing.

Sutcliffe is proving to be a big disappointment this season after showing so much promise last season.

Problem is both centres had to make 30 tackles to accomodate Burrow, was worth it last night but long term may be unfeasable

Hope you enjoyed your beer in Arcadia, shame about the weather. This forum, and yours, gives chance to have serious debates about RL or a more tongue in cheek viewpoint. Thankfully the mods on either board give free reign within reason. I have been on both boards like you say, partially on a wind up, but making an underlying point. I'm amused by the comments from some of your supporters at how good your support is and how bad everyone else's is. It would appear some of your lot have selective eyesight, and are prepared to overlook many poor followings from your fans over the last few years. It's not just Hull, every club has matches where a disappointing number of supporters travel, but some of the outrageous claims from a minority of Hull fans are laughable. One of your fellow Hull fans remarked I may be too young to remember when they REALLY did have a great following, the truth is, I've probably seen Hull in more finals than a large number of your supporters. As a kid is was fascinated by the way Hull could take over opponents grounds, and I adopted them as my 2nd team. I was there at Wembley for the famous all Hull final, and I was there at Elland Road when they beat Widnes in the replay in front of a packed house. I've seen them at Headingley in Premiership finals with nearly 30,000 there, so if your opinion of me is one of a Hull hater, you're well wide of the mark. A number of your fans live in the past and are prepared to just bang on how about great their support is while dismissing other teams fans. They are probably the first to go missing when less than a couple of hundred travel to certain games and then delete it from their memory bank. Overall Hull are still a big club with good support, just not as great as some make out.

Don't think people are comparing him to Lewis just saying Lewis lacked pace.

A better comparison would be Andy Gregory, and if he turns out even 75% as good has him I'd take that.

In terms of their respective strengths (and this isn't a comparison in terms of ability) there's a balance with Lilley and Sutcliffe a little reminiscent of Andy Gregory and Tony Myler.

Gregory wasn't the quickest, had a pretty ordinary passing game (he could only pass accurately in one direction) but he knew how to get a team around the park. Myler was the rangy, well balanced ball carrier with a bit of a kicking game but not much of an organiser. Put the two of them together though, and it worked.

A half-back pairing is all about balance. One needs to complement the other in terms of their strengths and weaknesses.

Was it just me, or did Achurch actually look scared to run the ball in? Everytime he got the ball, he ran sideways to try and go round the defenders - he's a big unit... Smash it up the middle ya big soft sod...
He looked like he was actively avoiding the ball - sitting behind the play the ball, dropping so deep he had others players between him and the ball... Then when it did come, it was like watching the under 8's and seeing the poor little kids that are terrified to get tackled so run away from everyone and then end up just throwing the ball anywhere..
Maybe all his injuries and general 'biscuitness' have eroded all confidence in his body to take the hits... Getting him off the wage bill cannot come quick enough.

Achurch played the full 80 didn't he? He made 33 tackles, yet Keinhorst outside him made 32.

Very rare in RL that your centre will do near as dammit the same amount of tackles as the 2nd rower inside him, especially if he played the full 80 and it was played in conditions that weren't suitable for the ball to be going wide.

He didn't do the full 80, went off after about 60 I think.

Andy Gregory was quick enough at Lilley's age - Lilley has none to begin with. Anyone suggesting Cooper Cronk had/has no pace can't have seen him run down Valentine Holmes and match Moses Mbye stride for stride over 70 metres in recent matches.

What Lilley did last night for his try was react well to a poor pass and was alert enough to collect a ricochet from a failed attempt to get the kick through. Burrow was my man of the match, followed by Jones-Buchanan, Hardaker and Keinhorst.

As Scott Taylor pointed out with Jon Wells' Hull were aiming Frank Pritchard at Sutcliffe three in, defending there with Lilley outside and Watkins four in on the inside and people wonder what's blunting his attacking play. Making 30 tackles a game won't help.

I thought Garbutt, and Mullally were immense yesterday, Garbutt was also immense against Salford too.

Can't say i noticed

Mullally imense , i guess you are having a laugh

As has been pointed out Lilley has speed of thought and quick reactions and has that cheeky half back attitude so lacking in Sutcliffe and deserved his MOM.

As for Watkins he has lost the edge of his pace and sharpness which is all too evident in most matches long before he makes many tackles.