We're definately on the same page mate wrt winning a GF but imo the squad is good enough to be competing better than it has for the last 14mths.
We clearly have no contingency plans or versatility to adapt during games which imo should be a given.
Only once we see the best of what we have collectively would a Coach get a better idea of what we need to bring in we all have our own ideas of course but that could change under a new regime.

Absolutely. I said after his first year here that he would take this club backwards, and he has. Of course certain posters like to post their own version of that, but good luck to them. The trophies are not an indication of otherwise, as we were already winning and in a dominant period. He is a lucky individual to have been the coach of that team, as he got to share in the success which could so easily have been someone else. He has clearly took us backwards, yet his three predecessors did the oppossite, and that is the difference where the views come in.

I remember many on here claiming Tony Smith's success was all down to his assistant, Brian McDermott.
Just wish I could remember who those posters were.

Anyone?

Trophies are not an indication of success.

Belter!

That is more than a little unfair imo, in that he won more trophies than any of his predecessors with those greats who were past their peak, and he also has not been backed in the recruitment stakes to anything like the degree of those other coaches (that has come home to roost now with the shocking state of our back up squad players). Has he past his sell by date now? without a doubt. But what he achieved 2011-2015 was exceptional. sadly, Mac's inability to realise he had run his race at the end of 2015 when he had reached everest (winning the treble) and had his right arm severed at the top (losing Sinfield and Peacock) now means he is probably going to be remembered as much by many as the coach who took Leeds backwards as much as for those achievements which i find quite sad TBH.

I will repeat what I said again, "he would take this club backwards". That is what was said, that is exactly what he has done. It isn't unfair in the slightest, he was the problem. When I talk club, I wasn't just referring to the first team. Our problems started with the changes he put in place with the academy. People can not just look to blame Hetherington on the squad (although he is a part of the problem), McDermott was heavily involved, but more so on the production line which was under his control. It is that lack of succession now, which is coming back to haunt us, and which you are reffering to as poor recruitment. The likes of Galloway and Segayaro were on just as much as the players in previous years, along with the massive contracts of Hall and Watkins just like players in the dominant period.

Things don't last for ever mate. we are not always, if ever again going to get young players of the calibre of the ones that went before all at once. I'm not saying McDermott didn't have any kind of say in the youth set up, and i aren't going to pretend i am ITK, all i see is what is on display at first team level, and as far as that goes i'm very happy with his job 2011-2015.

Out of interest, How many great juniors came from the set up between 2004 and 2011 when McDermott took over? in reality we had a great once in a generation batch from the 1998- 2002 period which three coaches manged to dine out on, but nothing exceptional since so to lay that all at the door of McDermott i find quite laughable to be fair.

Not without the input of a Doug Laughton and Dean Bell we aren't.


Not much at all since Doug Laughton and Dean Bell.

pretty much yep.

I am sorry, but this is where we massively differ. Certain players are near to a once in a generation, a batch of players is most certainly not. The players we had then are nothing overly special compared to what we have continued to have at junior level since, except for Sinfield, and to a degree Watkins. We have had the players, but the whole academy concept since he took over has been shocking for a club of our size and standing. Our eyes were off the ball by not continuing the massively successful approach instigated by Powell, and others before him. This is the major reason we are where we are today.

Sinfield, Diskin, JJB, Ward, Walker, Burrow, McGuire, Carvell, Calderwood, Bailey and Mathers

all from that batch and all international standard players at one time or another i believe (of course some contributed to the club more than others but they were all products of our youth system during that period) so yes, i would say these are more than run of the mill players and it's incredibly unusual to see so many high quality players come through at once.

So, infact our eye has probably been 'off the ball' for well over a decade now and should not lie solely at the door of McDermott, far from it imo.like you say we obviously massively differ in our thinking, which is fair enough so will leave it at that

I am still dissagreeing with you mate. What you are looking at is what they achieved, not where they came from, which is the point here. They acheived it because of the development. JJB, Diskin, Carvell, Calderwood, Bailey, Mathers, you could pick many under 15 game in the Yorkshire Junior League alone this weekend at random, and you will find players there equal at same age. Go to the top teams, and you will find quite a few better than McGuire and Burrow. It is all about how they kick on from there. In them days, the focus was to do exactly that, but it hasn't been in any manner over the last few years.

174 pages since July 10 2011 of fans wanting the coach sacked.

Unbelievable.

Sad, but a pretty good read all the same.
I especially like many of the posts in 2011 & 2012 which go quite some way to explaining the sheer bitterness that some posters display on an almost daily basis.

Here's a perfect example of the bitterness mentioned in my previous post.



Bitterness aside... if Mac was to stay, how could he prove himself to you Sal?
What would have to happen this year or even next if he's still here?

Blimey!

Fans getting all bitter and critical after a defeat.

Fans getting even more bitter, critical and knee-jerky after a massive 66-10 defeat.

Or, fans getting that warm, fuzzy, joyous feeling after a win.

Or fans getting that warm, fuzzy, joyous, celebratory, tear-inducing, fist-punching feeling after winning silverware.

Inconsistent or what?

How dare they self-indulge in the emotional highs and lows of supporting a team?

Pffft.

It's about time this forum got its act together and fans became proper fans who support team come rain or shine, win or loss, defeat or calamity, silver spoon service or sh*t sarnie, never ever critical, just nodding dog obedience to all those in charge of the club, aye.

A forum of cultists where everyone agrees with each other all of the time, where the team is great, the coach is fantastic, the CEO is God and there's no room for any disagreement or insubordination.

That's being a normal fan and a proper supporter... innit?

Wtf?

That's quite the over reaction to something that no one's even said.

Did the lack of a direct [i'I didn't say that'[/i quotation tell you to say that?

The psychological term for the above is [i[uprojection[/u[/i

Good to know, thanks. What's the psychological term for the type of post below...

You would be far better advised discovering the psychological terms which encapsulate your response to it

What, you mean this?[i "That's quite the over reaction to something that no one's even said."[/i
What's wrong with it? It's a fair response, i'd say.

How about Swarcliffe's reply of [i"wtf"[/i ?
Care to analyse that too while you're at it?

Feel free to not respond and we'll move on and pretend it didn't happen if you prefer.
You're clearly having a bad day and I don't want to be accused of derailing such an important and informative thread.

Sal, when you get a minute.....