Given where we are squad wise i dont see a whole lot wrong with the selection process at this moment in time has Vickery cost us games?? NO.
He's had to train just like anyone else and he's got the nod the fact he hasn't out-performed Hall or shown the blistering pace Chisolm has doesn't mean he's going to be a sh## signing.
Once again TVOC you offer an option ( Moa in past seasons)we obviously didn't feel the need to pursue and listening to Millward Carney will be far from a cheap option.

Tigers pick up the tab for his weekly Asda big shop. Part of the deal.

Far from a cheap option, like you say.

(they have some weighty backs - Lard-ass Tansey at FB then Carney/Webster who most be the heaviest winger/centre pairing we've seen in a long time)

The Leeds management have a past record of not getting every overseas recruit right even by their own terms (Mullins, O'Neill, Eastwood, Cross, Hauraki) and it's their job (not mine) to get these things right.

I imagine Castleford will be nowhere remotely close to spending what they are allowed to under the cap yet have still managed to assemble a reasonably competitive squad - one already capable of taking points off two of last season's top five and giving two others something to think about.

Unfortunately I remain of the view that Leeds also spend nowhere remotely close to the permitted cap and that remains difficult to understand given the relative strength of the club off the field.

"Unfortunately I remain of the view that Leeds also spend nowhere remotely close to the permitted cap"
Whilst its well known 99% of our squad could earn more elsewhere that's not to say they play for nowt TVOC i'd say they we are much closer to the cap than you suggest and certainly wouldn't pay Carney as much as Cas are.
How about the overseas recruitment they have got right in the form of Furner ,Adamson (imo) Bai ,Lauittiti ,Mckenna ,Webb ,Delaney ,Kylie etc etc??

I would have to disagree and say that Leeds spend somewhere very close to the salary cap..... We have a strong team with about 8 -10 players in the England set up. This would effect their salaries and I would say that you would be talking an avg 50,000+ a year for those players then add the high cost top ups to our top guys (Sinny JP, Hall, McGuire, plus, KL, BD, JM on decent contracts and our younger stars, Watkins, Ward, Hardacker on increasing yearly contracts.

Then throw in a handful of smaller contracts of maybe 20,000 per year for squad players, your talking close to the salary cap.

GH has done a great job of managing contracts to give us such a strong team....yes some don't work out, but show me a team than always makes the right moves on players.

They were BOTH given a go on boxing day. Which one do you think took the opportunity?

As I understand it we are currently using 3 of 5 overseas quota spots on Leuluai, Delaney and Moon. And are using 4 of 5 Non-Fed Trained spots on Delaney,Moon, Achurch and Vickery.

That's a fair enough assessment if that's what you believe.

The core of the current squad has remained fairly static for a long time and I personally think it's unlikely that their remuneration packages are increasing year on year at this stage of their careers - I'm looking at the likes of Sinfield, Burrow, McGuire, Bailey, Leuluai, Peacock, Jones-Buchanan as placing less of a strain on the cap than they did three or four season ago. I'd also argue some of the perceived higher earners have left since the 2010 squad in the form of Webb, Donald, Senior, Buderus, Lauitiiti, Diskin, Eastwood and Smith to be replaced in the main by cheaply imported players and some contract upgrades for the younger players in and around the squad. Many of those younger players still looking to establish and cement their futures with Leeds so hardly likely to push too hard in negotiating deals. Hetherington has often shown younger players that if they think they're worth more than he's offering then they are free to take their chances elsewhere. Finally not forgetting from that 2010 squad Leeds have released the likes of Burgess, Pitts, Amor and Ambler freeing up some of the upgrade money for youngsters/fringe.

I credit Hetherington (who I beleive ran Sheffield on close to fresh [size=70(or even polluted Don Valley) [/sizeair) with not spending one penny piece more than he feels he can get away with.

It's not his job to employ some mediocre players and coaches to effectively hold Leeds back to the pack for the good of the SL overall. Rather it's his job to allow Leeds to be as good as they can be off the back of perhaps a once in a generation core group of players even if that means they dominate the comp along the way.

You think the now established internationals Sinfield, Burrow and Jones-Buchanan won't be on any more percentage wise of the cap than they were four years ago?

How much do you think the World's Best Winger commands? Or ETS squad members like Carl Ablett?

Leeds have always operated fairly close to the cap, like most of the top sides. That won't have changed over the last four years. As higher earners have moved on, others will have been upgraded to absorb the space.

The coaches have shown that they will select the players who they think will do the best job for them. They obviously take into consideration skills, experience and mental toughness plus performance and attitude on the training field and have shown that they sometimes back these attributes over current form. IMO it is difficult for a strong argument against their judgement to be taken seriously when you consider the success they have produced.

Over the years Leeds have built a winning ethos for the big important games based on great team spirit and a settled backbone of the team who have grown up together. For a player to break into this group they will have to show not only the skill but also the right attitude off the field too.

I didn't go to game so I cannot say, but I am also not sure that a friendly is really the platform to judge first team suitability

Sinfield signed a long term contract two years ago it is very unlikely given his age he would not have taken a salary cut, same goes for Peacock and Kylie.

Hetherington has in recent years always said there is room in the cap for a marquee signing and they don't come cheap - no marquee signing has emerged since 2004 - so how far under the cap are Leeds?

Maybe so. I was there. However, does that match have such status that any subsequent claims elsewhere since should be utterly ignored? By all accounts Watson has being performing extremely well with confidence at FB.

Geez I love these individuals who purport to speak on my behalf.

If I remember correctly BJB was going through a spell of not playing so well and was far from convincing. All I advocated (and ever advocate) is that if [uANY[/u player suffers a prolonged drop in convincing displays - whatever that past reputation - the acadamey player playing well in the same position should surely be given an opportunity. If not and persistence is made with the repeatedly failing first teamer, is there any point in having such a back up of playing staff?

I did. Vickery shone and took his chance. He impressed. Chisolm on the other hand did nothing.

If trial matches are not the place to stake a claim for a 1st team jersey, what is? Training? Because none of us here are privy to that but the coaches that keep selecting Vickery ahead of Chisolm are.

Now, I'm not suggesting Vickery should keep his place based upon that. I think he should show more. But he certainly earned his place at the start of the season ahead of Chisolm and wasn't just handed it like some are suggesting. Chisolm got the same opportunity and didn't take it.

I'd want to see Chisolm become the next Offiah as much as anyone but I don't buy that anyone has been given a leg up into the 1st team that he hasn't.

I agree with this mate but i disagree that the likes of Vickery and Achurch are getting preferential treatment.
It's also great to hear that Watson and Keinhorst are doing so well for Hunslet and i'm sure their time will come again but Ablett and Vickery on the right is the preffered choice at this time with Watkiins at FB and imo it's hardly been disastrous enough to change it when we lost to the Storm by 4 and beat ST's away for the 1st time in 5yrs.

Correct, I don't think they'll be taking up much if any more of the cap than they were in 2010.

Who was it that said when extending his last contract with Leeds in 2011 : [i"Money's not everything and for me, being happy and enjoying what you do far outweighs any of that." [/i



Commands? I'd be surprised if he sought what he was probably worth on the open market as that would run against the ethos of the club epitomised by the words of his captain. Ablett likewise, in fact likewise for all Leeds' ex-Academy contingent. Hetherington has been prepared to hold open the door marked 'exit' for any unhappy with their deals. Players seeing the career paths others have dared to tread will have to weigh up being paid what they think they may be worth with leaving a proven set-up.



If the current Leeds squad is anywhere remotely close to the permitted cap then Mr Caddick would be entitled to ask some pretty serious questions of the CEO, IMO.

From 2010 : Out : Webb, Donald, Senior, Smith, Buderus, Diskin, Eastwood, Lauitiiti, Burgess

In : Hardaker, Moon, Griffin, Moore, Achurch
Upgrades : Watkins, Jones-Bishop, McShane, Clarkson, Ward

The saving on Buderus' alleged wedge alone would take care of all that and I'd wager still leave room for a slap up meal at Mrs Miggins' pie shop.

Isn't Cross missing from this list?

It is difficult to believe that Chisholm could have been as bad as Vickery was tonight

Yup. Won't see me defending him after that performance. Shocking, but he wasn't alone.

Think he was the worst by some distance though G - definitely at fault for the first three tries.

Ablett's complete lack of faith in him shows he shouldn't be in the team IMO - he had a chance to give him the ball in a tryscoring position late in the second half, but opted to keep hold of the ball and take the tackle.

I'd need to see it again to be sure, but it also looked like that the break for Brough's try came when Ablett was trying to cover two attackers, almost like he didn't trust Vickery to deal with his man

I haven't 'spoke' on your behalf, I merely remember what you wrote in the past. It's not my fault you write garbage and when people pick you up on it and show you up on your (lack of) rugby knowledge you try to backtrack and laugh it off as a 'joke'.

I think Ablett needs to take some responsibility in not passing. No good saying no faith, Vickery was clear unmarked on two occasions in 2nd half and Ablett chose to keep hold of the ball. He did the same thing in the WCC game. I am far from defending Vickery as My opinion is like the majority on here, but it would be interesting what the view would be had he got a couple of tries in those matches which could have happened.

I always give guys chances and im still willing to give Vickery some time, but I said in preseason on here that he didnt look like a First Grade quality player, even though he scored 4 tries. He looked slow and laboured to me and I saw a few weaknesses in his defensive reads. I was told to look at Youtube at his 4 minute highlights package from the past 5 years of reserve grade.

People have their criticisms of BJB, and sometimes rightly so, but from what I have seen, he is quicker, safer and a lot more confident with ball in hand than Vickery. It really gets me when wingers get the bal wide and decide to run back in field sideways before getting tackled. Making 3 metres running straight is better than running 15 metres sideways and making no ground.

I don't want to make Vikery a scapegoat for last night, the whole team (with the exception of Moore) were woeful, but he's not looking like a Super League standard winger IMO.

It could be that he's taking his time to settle in but from what I've seen so far it doesn't look promising.