[quote="Pat Bateman":v6vr1s46]I don’t agree. There’s a difference in trying to buy success and trying to create a culture to have prolonged sustainable success. Powell and Ste Mills have made it no secret the number one thing they look at when they sign a player is his personality. We are with the new backing starting to create a top culture to then hopefully target trophies within the next 5 years. Leeds are targeting trophies now instead of getting their house in order. Having the likes of Connor, Bentley and Newman who are well known to be marmite characters won’t help this. These types of players would have been no where near the Leeds team of old. You’re losing your identity and we are creating a new one for us.[/quote:v6vr1s46] Good posting, certainly food for thought.

It's one game. Let's not get ahead of oursens. Wakey will go well. Leeds will go well.

[quote="DMF":fdojd6s8]It's one game. Let's not get ahead of oursens. Wakey will go well. Leeds will go well.[/quote:fdojd6s8] Agreed, I will reserve judgement until we are seven or eight games into the season. I have mentioned before ,that the Arthur situation isn’t perfect. But we were in dire straits. So Brad was the only realistic option. Our pack yesterday was a huge disappointment, made worse by the fact wakey had a few forwards missing. First half was disastrous, they ran us ragged, three quarters defence absolutely woeful. Wakefield played some good rugby drove the ball up the middle. Then moved it wide very quickly. Quite simple but effective.

If we're going to stop being mediocre then dropping underperformers is a priority. At least we have a few options now. Clark-Wood and Jenkins will come into the team, and hopefully Sinfield/O'Connor. The first priority has to be to sort this pack out. Its been a powderpuff mess for years. Fix that and a lot of the other problems can be solved. Don't and it doesn't matter who else comes in.

[quote="Pat Bateman":z4ebfv7l]I don’t agree. There’s a difference in trying to buy success and trying to create a culture to have prolonged sustainable success. Powell and Ste Mills have made it no secret the number one thing they look at when they sign a player is his personality. We are with the new backing starting to create a top culture to then hopefully target trophies within the next 5 years. Leeds are targeting trophies now instead of getting their house in order. Having the likes of Connor, Bentley and Newman who are well known to be marmite characters won’t help this. These types of players would have been no where near the Leeds team of old. You’re losing your identity and we are creating a new one for us.[/quote:z4ebfv7l] Good post.

At least we managed to keep one skill from last season. The ability to kick the ball straight to a member of the opposition every time. I actually saw the ball hit the grass once from a kick in the second half but missed who kicked the ball. I am sure that a review of the game will allow the coaching team to identify this player and quickly teach this issue out of him.

I do think there's been a bit of an overreaction to the defeat. It was a poor performance, it's the first game, let's see where we are in 7 or 8 weeks time.

[quote="Jack Burton":2y4wh92m]I do think there's been a bit of an overreaction to the defeat. It was a poor performance, it's the first game, let's see where we are in 7 or 8 weeks time.[/quote:2y4wh92m] Absolutely not, that's far too balanced an opinion

[quote="Jack Burton":1otjuocw]I do think there's been a bit of an overreaction to the defeat. It was a poor performance, it's the first game, let's see where we are in 7 or 8 weeks time.[/quote:1otjuocw] But its been the same old same old since 2018 pretty much, we start poor flounder buff and bluster in the middle then fall short, so hard to be optimistic as it already looks like the writing is on the wall. I’m sure we all want to get proven wrong.

More concerning than the result was the performance. If there was evidence of some intelligence or ideas but execution failed then fair enough, however yet again we look like we met in the car park before the game and picked playing positions out of a hat. Edge defence horrific. All the back bar maybe hall poor. We've exciting players when in space yet never attempted to make space for them. Forwards the less said the better. Don't know what people see in cam smith. Wouldn't be disappointed never to see hackers in a Leeds kit again either. Positives though at least some youngsters should get game time next week

I have calmed down a bit from yesterday, I do have some serious concerns and i might be on my own but it isn’t the forwards. What I will say is all this talk of season over etc is a bit hysterical after one game. We've seen Wigan lose without scoring a single point, Catalans get walloped at home against Hull, Hull KR celebrating like they've won a GF after beating Cas by a drop goal in golden point, and currently Warrington are getting beaten and outplayed at Huddersfield. What I want to see is a response on Saturday

You cannot predict how a season is going to go based on one game, but I can understand people being worried after yesterday. It was the kind of performance that got Rohan Smith sacked, one where the left hand didn’t know what the right hand was doing. We have tthe much maligned Lachie Miller to come back, and not much else if yesterday was classed as our strongest team. The Aussie centre that has never played NRL may come in and be up to scratch, but he may be another “Momster”. Brad Arthur’s had most of them for half a playing season and a full pre season, I’m sure most people are worried about how much more he can squeeze out of this current squad.

[quote="leeds owl":3pv8wam0]You cannot predict how a season is going to go based on one game, but I can understand people being worried after yesterday. It was the kind of performance that got Rohan Smith sacked, one where the left hand didn’t know what the right hand was doing. We have tthe much maligned Lachie Miller to come back, and not much else if yesterday was classed as our strongest team. The Aussie centre that has never played NRL may come in and be up to scratch, but he may be another “Momster”. Brad Arthur’s had most of them for half a playing season and a full pre season, I’m sure most people are worried about how much more he can squeeze out of this current squad.[/quote:3pv8wam0] yes if i read correctly in to this post , it is saying we have not signed any decent players , so how is anyone expecting us to do much better than last season . you could have Wayne Bennet or his brother Gordon coaching this lot , it would not make much difference as there is little talent to coach. Oh and the plastic supporters in the plastic South stand create no atmosphere , its like a Library even before we go behind . Knock it down and put the old one back up

As a Wakey fan attending the match yesterday I expected us to beaten by Leeds (not by as many as some fans stated early on this thread) even moreso with some of our 'better' players like Rodwell, Griffin, Atoni, Nikotimo missing from the pack. Our bench was pretty light but as a club we reset last year with a clear attack and defence structure which last season and so far this season has seen us hard to score against. What was really pleasing is that 9 of the starting 17 played throughout the Championship last season. Looking at Leeds there wasn't much cohesion and we matched you and .ore down the middle and the edges. I did think we would get beaten with the sinbinning of Lino but credit to the team they held on. Two key decisions was the disallowed effort by Pratt and try given to Newman, either could have gone either way. Good luck for the season and we will be back soon at Headingly where you can try again

Some interesting stats here showing how weak our pack was https://www.facebook.com/share/p/15etaz ... tid=wwXIfr

Some interesting stats here showing how weak our pack was https://www.facebook.com/share/p/15etaz ... tid=wwXIfr

[quote="Trebor1":olewoo2u]Some interesting stats here showing how weak our pack was https://www.facebook.com/share/p/15etaz ... tid=wwXIfr[/quote:olewoo2u] Not sure that really show how weak our pack was? If Oledzki didn't get a head knock he would have probably made more metres than Mckmeeken - would that show our pack was stronger than theirs? Yes we made slightly less metres per carry but I didn't see our pack get dominanted

[quote="Trebor1":olewoo2u]Some interesting stats here showing how weak our pack was https://www.facebook.com/share/p/15etaz ... tid=wwXIfr[/quote:olewoo2u] Not sure that really show how weak our pack was? If Oledzki didn't get a head knock he would have probably made more metres than Mckmeeken - would that show our pack was stronger than theirs? Yes we made slightly less metres per carry but I didn't see our pack get dominanted

[quote="Exeter Rhino":23em98kz]At some point Arthur's tough talk is going to have to translate into progress on the field. I'm not saying it won't, and there is a long season to go... But I have to say I'm disappointed by the first half performance after what we've been hearing about all the work pre-season.[/quote:23em98kz] That performance was as bad as any I have seen in last 5 years. Shocking display and a Rohan smith type post match interview. Brad Arthur or Arthur Daley. Total incompetence

[quote="Trebor1":1re7bji9]Some interesting stats here showing how weak our pack was https://www.facebook.com/share/p/15etaz ... tid=wwXIfr[/quote:1re7bji9] Full stats here, not sure how it shows how weak our pack was? https://www.superleague.co.uk/match-centre/report/43416 We had 27 play the balls in the opposition half versus 19 (a rarity last year) Made 38 tackle busts compared to 13 for Wakefield Wakefield had 38 missed tackles compared to our 13. If were going of selected stats that would show our issue was a total lack of attacking threat not being dominated in the pack.

[quote="Trebor1":1re7bji9]Some interesting stats here showing how weak our pack was https://www.facebook.com/share/p/15etaz ... tid=wwXIfr[/quote:1re7bji9] Full stats here, not sure how it shows how weak our pack was? https://www.superleague.co.uk/match-centre/report/43416 We had 27 play the balls in the opposition half versus 19 (a rarity last year) Made 38 tackle busts compared to 13 for Wakefield Wakefield had 38 missed tackles compared to our 13. If were going of selected stats that would show our issue was a total lack of attacking threat not being dominated in the pack.

[quote="Bobtownrhino":3ths0qs4]That performance was as bad as any I have seen in last 5 years. Shocking display and a Rohan smith type post match interview. Brad Arthur or Arthur Daley. Total incompetence[/quote:3ths0qs4] Then you have a short memory, both Hull away games and saints away last year were far worse.

I would say Second Row is a bigger issue than the pack this year, Gannon needs to be starting instead of Bentley and I would put Cooper Jenkins in instead of McDonnel who I thought was really poor on Saturday

Whilst Saturday does not define the season. It was very disappointing after Arthur had spoken about making Headingley a fortress and getting off to a good start to get the fans back on side and some momentum in the team. Handley and Newman racing out of the defensive line on at leas5 5-6 occasions probably cost us as it gave them the field position to score the tries. I don't see Handley as a centre but suspect Arthur will stick with him. Newman never looks like he'll make a break from a good line, power or speed. His instinct is always to cut back inside. He looks a shadow of his former self. I thought Connor was very slow in bringing the ball back from kicks and possibly played a part in us starting sets on the backfoot. I also thought Hall and Lumb were slow in getting back at times to be an option for Connor to pass to from the kicks. Frawley is just not good enough. His kicking is pathetic. A 10 year old could put up a more dangerous bomb than him. He doesn't appear a loud voice either. I would definitely be playing Sinfield ahead of him. Ackers is possibly the most disappointing. I swear when he played for Salford, he would make 2-3 breaks a game from scooting from dummy half, however, I can barely remember him making a clean break for us. He seems slow and seems to go the wrong way quite often. If that's the level of his performance this season then he will need releasing. Oledzki for me just needs to be tougher and nastier, a bit like Holroyd. The size of him, he should be causing chaos. Bentley offers zero in attack. Gannon I'm hoping might be the player we need. McDonnell was ineffective cutting back inside. It was very much a typical Leeds performance of the last few years. They seem to raise their games for the tougher matches and lower themselves for the so called lesser sides. I think there is a mentality issue. The fact we got that performance after an Arthur pre-season is concerning. Lots of concerns for me and I suspect based on that match, we will continue to be inconsistent. That said, it would not surprise me if this team beat Saints away in the CC. We seem so hit and miss.

Not a single Leeds forward ran 100M with the ball. Our 4 props on the day took 41 drives between them for a total of 270M an average gain of 6M. This is why we lost, they don't work anything like hard enough with the ball. Everything else comes from the platform your front row sets (or doesn't). 3 of the Wakey starting pack ran more than 100M or more. Fix this and we will be OK, don't and it will be a long old season. Again.

[quote="batleyrhino":uwgl0hib]Not a single Leeds forward ran 100M with the ball. Our 4 props on the day took 41 drives between them for a total of 270M an average gain of 6M. This is why we lost, they don't work anything like hard enough with the ball. Everything else comes from the platform your front row sets (or doesn't). 3 of the Wakey starting pack ran more than 100M or more. Fix this and we will be OK, don't and it will be a long old season. Again.[/quote:uwgl0hib] Looking at the stats on the super league page, Wakefields props made 210 metres, so 60 metres less than ours, and that's with Mik going down with HIA

The Wakey Pack made more metres than the Leeds pack, Wakey starting pack 432M, Leeds starting pack 341M. Almost 100M more.

[quote="batleyrhino":2deqpck9]The Wakey Pack made more metres than the Leeds pack, Wakey starting pack 432M, Leeds starting pack 341M. Almost 100M more.[/quote:2deqpck9] Yes, but you said that our props were the reason we lost, when they actually outgained the Wakefield props.