For years we've been terrible against packs that run hard and fast, and go for a quick ptb. For some reason, we lose the collision and try slow them down once they're on the deck, hence the penalties - our gang tackle and wrestle technique is terrible and has been for years.
And we look slow and unfit. Plodder!

There have been examples of more “round” players who were awesome. However in the modern game, when it is your job to be as fit and physical as you can be, I struggle to see how carrying an extra stone of fat is acceptable to be honest. Unless your game is about mass (Paul Anderson, Joe Vagana...).
Anyway, I don’t think our overweight-looking players is our biggest issue at the moment.
Wigan, Saints, Warrington all looking very slick. It is a long season but the worry is that we will still win games against “lesser” sides. We needed another prop before Garbutt was released.
This year is already looking very much like a live experiment on about half of the playing squad. My hope is that we will bring in a good prop mid season still.

Hurrell is the kind of player who will do what he does, make impact, probably some mistakes in there as well.
Merrin is quality, but we won’t see his true value at prop. He’s not played big minutes for a while now, and to me looks like would do better lighter, fitter, and longer on the field.
Tui isn’t an out and out stand off (yet) and even established ones need some kind of platform to shine.
Donaldson really put himself about actually I was quite impressed.
We do have good players but it’s the 20% we’re missing which puts pressure on the rest and stops pretty much everyone achieving their potential.

Lolohea was invisible in the second half and Ferres was a turd.
Another season of despair but London will save our skins.
Should I donate my away expenses to the Leeds' homeless rather than the Leeds' clueless?

Ferres is literally the only player we have who is an enforcer though.

A very depressing performance on all fronts

Ferris an enforcer

Wire fan in peace:

Considering the number of new players you've signed with the number of players back from injury, plus the new formation taking all this into account, I don't think it's that bad at all. First 10/15 was fairly even- you should have/deserved to go ahead if it wasn't for the Hughes' tackle.

Second half was 6-6.

I think there's a load to come yet, especially with those new signings and returning players, and more than anything else, the most important signing- the manager in Furner.

(Forgot to add that I do agree with a lot of posters in that Garbutt is a big miss, but with Trent Merrin there, surely he'll inspire some of the other front rowers, not playing tonight, to step up. Also Hall's boots are tricky to fill but you'll be better in other areas I'm sure- you've got an excellent academy, someone will turn up, they always do, hence all the titles you've won).

Nowt to worry about at all if I was a Leeds fan, and a lot to look forward to.

Ferres just winds up the opposition usually off the ball. I don’t see much aggression with ball in hand. Can’t wait to see him leave when contract expires.

It’s still too early to give up on the season.
I suppose we need to put it into context - better sides than us will lose at Warrington this year. They are well balanced. I do genuinely think we will improve a bit as the year goes on.
It’s the manner of it though isn’t it? We were lucky not to get nilled tonight.
I have to say I thought we’d be more competitive tonight than we were. Furner is going to have to try different pack combinations because I’m not convinced that was our best possible mix. Crosby probably comes in when fit to be fair, but Peteru and Smith unlucky.

Wigan will be a good yardstick next up. They too looked short of power and ideas, be interesting to see how well we compete. Wire were always likely to be too good but while they're still a decent challenge, wigan aren't at that level right now.

It was a poor display showing little progress from last year and Warrington were good value for their win.

Just shows the amount of work needed through the club.

Credit to the players though, kept going even though we'll off the pace. We need to be patient. On paper the recruitment we have done is solid and let's see where we are in 6 weeks time.

Yes I was fearing a spanking at half time.
So who do we bring in, using the current squad, to make a positive difference?
I’d like Smith to get a run but is he too similar to Sutcliffe?

I’d have smith over sutcliffe he’s pretty useless and has been for a few seasons. He’d be better on the bench can cover a few spots for injury. I would take ferres out as well back 3 of Smith Merrin and ward. Donaldson did well though I must admit

Cas fan here, I think Furner could turn it round with the personnel he has at his disposal. That is if he realises that Parcell just isn't good enough to mount a top 5 challenge.

Firstly, I don't understand the thinking of spending one marquee allowance on a forward!
Secondly, I don't understand why then have him sit out on the bench when he is on one marquee allowance!!

Sutcliffe was OK last night on the whole. Parcell did a load of work in defence.
As a rule not many players will look great to most people when they’re defending all the time.
We might turn it around but we can’t defy the laws of physics and our pack doesn’t offer enough punch. We have some ball players but they’re suffocated.

Does anyone know how you can see the stats from last night. ?

Unbelivably bad some of them, the right edge of Sutcliffe, Lolohea, and Watkins, missed 17 tackles between them.

Thought myself Sutcliffe had an ok game, and did do 35 tackles, but 7 missed is Keinhorst standard.

On the other side Ferres and Myler missed 5 tackles each.

You can see where our problems are. For the record, on paper stats, Merrin, Cuthbertson, Dobaldson, and Ward, had very good games.

Thanks gotcha. I think most things yesterday can be put down to having no impact in the front row. Cuthbo and Merrin are more about playing football than doing the hard stuff. Garbutt used to give us a bit of that but now we’ve lost him too. Let’s hope big mik can play above his years this season. (He already is)

One thing about the stats and selection, I wonder if sitcluffe got in because he can play 80 mins with the new 2 less interchanges. He may not be as effective as 2 bigger back towers, but saves you a couple of interchanges and does a job. Also, could fatigue due to this be another factor for missed tackles. (On tip of obviously being well and truely beaten upfront)

Well, I think this is a good point. It's easy to breakdown the performance at an individual level, but as someone else said, after giving away so many penalties and having to do so much more defence, individuals were bound to make mistakes and look less good bringing the ball out.

What would last year's team done after half-time? The answer is not keeping the opposition to one score and keeping the second half scoreline respectable.

I agree that both the overall scoreline and team performance are a worry, especially after last season. I think the main general positive we can take is that the coach took steps to change things that showed on the field in the second half (if not fix them up entirely and turn the game around). We also have to bear in mind that we came up against one of the two top teams in the league.

The big test now is the response in the coming weeks. Given the much lauded squad restructuring and changes behind the scenes, we should expect an improved performance against Wigan, both from individuals, as well as as a team.

The bottom-line has to be the collective approach to the ruck and the collision in both attack and defence. Furner may want to tinker with the forward line-up (e.g. bringing the likes of Smith, Crosby and Peteru in), but I think this is less about individuals than how they work as a unit. Merrin looked decent in contact but he was also one of the biggest culprits around the ruck, especially in the first half.

Thanks mate. Nice post that. Wish wire all the best this year. If we don't win anything I hope you guys get that grand final win. It's long over due. You look a v good side now.

The biggest problem for me is we don't present an attacking threat - I thought they had been working on a structured attack and getting away from the of the cuff stuff. Who is going to organise the attack? That is the frustration for me in Ward he should offer some attacking threat e.g. Ablett of year ago but he is too easily contained. Parcell is another - at the end of the first half he couldn't even get to the PTB never mind his contribution to two of the tries.

Last year Warrington won 2 in the first 6 games and ended up playing in both finals. Though I don’t think we have the squad to make a final this year, I expect a similarly slow start with improvement made after 6 or 7 weeks playing together.