Butterfly effect.

The minute you make a decision to do one thing, it completely changes the outcomes of every single second in the game after that. If you elect to kick at goal rather than run it, what's to say you don't knock on from the kick off and give a try away?

You simply can't say "if we made decision A rather than decision B we would have won" because everything which follows that decision will have completely different outcomes.

Agree the winning the collision is still really bad in both attack and defence. Defensively it means we are scattered about which happened often tonight and offensively it gives the defence the time to get organised which is making it harder to score.

We lose the collision in both attack and defence so much it's a miracle that we have actually been involved in so many close games.

It's another reason why Lilley should be ahead of Sutcliffe when McGuire gets back.

Great to see the spirit when JJB scored and at the end. Lots to work on but thought more spark and movement on attack. Lilley and burrow best displays of season which I will credit as reason McD used the 16 man trick and left Falloon on bench. Just got home and watched last 10 mins and McD odd quote "we've got some things happening off the field at the moment". It is all a bit cryptic. Whatever it is he seems to keep waving the same flag. Presume it is a human issue rather than the well documented training ground problem or injury list. It's all very unlike what Leeds have been over last decade plus.

I agree, he should keep his place. He was key tonight and one of our other wins too vs Hudds.

He is at least making one poster in particular look foolish who said he should be in the lower leagues because of his pace and ripped him because he didn't convert the try in the WCC.

Thought both teams could hold their heads high tonight. Leeds I think walked away deserving winners, but pleased with how Hull performed as well.

Best game you could hope for in those conditions really.

On way to ground I heard McD interview on radio Leeds. Dave fletcher asked him about cam smith being 18th man last week and then is he ready for super league?
McD "no".
He said more but not much sugar coating and as biff and others have alluded sounded like a man seeking to make a broader point. No idea though what it was

True, whilst their were some knock ons, I was expecting a hell of a lot more and a much more stop-start game. For a pi$$ing it down game with the home team shot on confidence it wasn't bad at all. Not a classic but certainly a good watch.

TBH I got that from his Boxing Day game post match interview. He didn't seem happy they were playing the game and pretty much said the team wasn't ready for a game yet (again a knock on effect from extending the season by 2 weeks vs NZ imo)

Again one of the early loses he was asked if it was down to injuries/retirees/confidence and he said no it was more than that.

The other week he said that he and GH were going around in the off-season trying to keep players level headed when they were attending award do's and getting recognition for their success in 2015. Now I know morons like William have tried to make fun of it but I see this as hinting at my view that the squad enjoyed the acclaim it was getting for its success too much. If they weren't then why would McDermott express that he felt the need to make an effort to keep the players grounded post awards do's/recognition?

Or if Lilley always kicked when he is on the field...

He's young with a long way to go before anyone's opinion can be fairly assessed. Someone once said it was too early to judge Joe Vickery and events almost immediately showed in his case it weren't too early at all.

The conditions were slow tonight which suited Lilley. First time I noticed him take the line on was mid-way through the second half, then again around ten from the end. His place kicks all went over, he reacted to the ricochet well and did equally well to get over. He's had other individual moments in other games too this season but nothing yet to convince me he isn't the latest Paul McShane clone.

I'm also still not seeing what the fuss is regarding Golding. He had one good moment recovering the kick that sat up in-goal but spent the rest of the match running sideways and backwards on kick returns while frightening the life out of Hardaker by threatening passes (thankfully didn't follow through) while looking afraid to take contact.

Leeds' best IMO were Burrow, Jones-Buchanan, Keinhorst and Hardaker. Two welcome and unexpected points, hopefully they'll be more of those in the coming weeks.

TRANSLATION

"I've slagged Lilley off before so I've got to stick to it regardless of performance"

Lilley put in a lot of effort tonight and came up with a crucial try and held his nerve with kicks but I did feel he lacked a bit of quality with some of his kicks, when he was rushed they seemed to go a bit wayward. That is why Burrow was MotM imo as he helped out with kicks at crucial times.
Sutcliffe on the other hand had a few good touches (and some not so good ones) but was not involved enough.

I think it might be worth them switching positions, Sutcliffe at first reciever getting more involved with Lilley acting as a foil and an organisor in the way DCE and Foran used to operate.
Nt sure what to do when Mcguire is back tbh, could play with Mcguire replacing either of the roles mentioned above.

Keinhorst was great, he should be somewhere in the 17 no matter who is fit in the next few weeks. Handly is also pushing for a place although he needs to bulk up a bit. Golding clearly isnt a winger but didnt let anyone down, for the first. Hardaker was far from perfect but put in everything, as did JJB.

I've commented on Lilley before, I've commented on Lilley and other performances tonight. If you've got opinions on Lilley to share then feel free. I've yet to see anything to get over excited about.

I've yet to see anything to be massively critical about too, yet you were on here like a dog with two d!cks post WCC almost celevbrating his missed conversion and telling us he'll be at Fev/Hunslet soon.

Lilley will improve he is only 19, most halves dont emerge fully until they are 23/24 especially ones whos games arent based on pace.

Golding is not a winger, cant see how you can criticise him really, again he is 19 and will bulk up for kick returns.

Doesn't sound like something I'd do but sounds like something you'd claim others do.

My comments probably to counter-balance some over the top praise handed down to anyone who can tie their own shoe laces without falling over such is Leeds fans desperation to find cheap saviours. What I saw and commented on was a half-back with no pace (an aspect unlikely to be acquired with maturity) which IMO will severely limit their effectiveness without offering a running threat. Other aspects would need to be exceptional in time to survive at a club like Leeds.

If he's going to be a prospect I'd like to see him given an extended run in a settled position but with McGuire/Burrow still to accommodate I can't see that happening.

You were formidable,given the atroutious conditions you grinded a win out.Hudds beat the Wire in similar fashion,so the win counts for nothing..Personally I thought Lilley played very well.

Re Golding, it doesn't particularly matter whether he's a winger or not - he was safe, he carried the ball securely, he ran - my issue with him remains that he ran sideways way too much (Joe Vickery-like) and looks unhappy when taking contact, offensively and defensively. Without he finds an appetite for that I think he's going to struggle. I don't buy the age argument as there have been and are plenty of lads that age more than happy with the physical nature of the sport.

The win counts for two points, same as any other win. The aim is to be 8th or higher in twelve games time - who knows whether Leeds or Huddersfield will be in that contest or who the other clubs might be. That said, would have preferred a Huddersfield loss.

Don't play the neutral poster, it doesn't work with those of us who have good memories.....you delighted in criticising him for not landing the 2 vs NQC and then saying how he'll end up in the Championship or lower.

A halfback with no pace you say? No, that'll never work.

Golding has all the attributes to become a big star. He has pace, good hands ability to make clean breaks, is brave and is a heads up attacking player who finds space and holds the ball in two hands. That you are unable to spot these skills is unfortunate as is your belief that looking to make contact is an asset. Attacking back play is all about avoiding contact and seeking space which you seem to equate with being unhappy with contact.

It is all just opinion of course as was the time you rubbished a very young Owen Farrell.

My initial thought was how are hull 3rd. Was a low quality game (weather assisted) Keinhorst looked good,full of enthusiasm. I have been massively critical of burrow this season but thought he had one of his better games. JJB got stuck in and when Mags returns sutcliffe should be making way for him. Once again non involvement from him. Lilley looked the more creative HB of the two

Lilley is a good young prospect with those creative attacking half back skills that are all too rare these days. Yes he is a little short of pace but so were many good half backs over the years. He has the ability to create opportunities on the last tackle particularly close to their line. Something we have sadly lacked this year. He should be given an extended run with McGuire when he returns. Burrow showed last night that he should be at 9 too.