I assume Cummins explanation is correct as per the rules because I always thought you could ground it with the forearm

So if you have possession, lose it from the hand and don't regain it you cant score by simultaneously grounding the ball with your forearm like last night where as if you never lost the ball, from a kick for example, downward pressure with the forearm is sufficient?

I suppose in reality there was little control last night when McGuire 'scored' but then, if chasing a kick and grounding with a forearm, how much control do you really have?

Anyway glad thats cleared up :p

Loves a big 10 does Phil Bentham

Or if you knock the ball forward but then fortuitously kick it before it reaches the ground like Lomax then it's not a knock on.

it should be

Except the laws say it isn't.

"If, after knocking-on accidentally, the player knocking-on regains or kicks the ball before it touches the ground, a
goal post, cross bar or an opponent, then play shall be allowed to proceed."

Without watching it back frame-by-frame, I'm not sure the ball didn't make contact with the ground before/at the same time as Lomax kicked it though.

Much like the McGuire one at the DW a couple of years ago, where he knocked on then kicked through for someone to score, only for the VR to chalk it off.

The try that Hall scored in the GF I think it was 2008 the one where he kicked through looked like it his wrist.Must take a look

As I said above from what Cummins said, downward pressure is fine with other parts of the body, but if the ball has dropped from the hand it has to be regained by the hand before anything else in order to not be a knock on in the act of scoring.

he did but he kicked it ahead and never lost it as mcguire did

As opposed to knocking on deliberately?

Just be glad RL doesn't have 'kick n clap' rules - YET....... The players this year are scared to try and intercept anything - if they don't quite make it, they end up with a 10 minute sin bin for a deliberate knock-on ..... killed off breakaway tries in one fell swoop, that rule has.

The McGuire no try was similar to the Menzies no try at the KC Stadium the week before and both were correctly ruled out by the video referees involved (Smith and Thaler) for the same reason. Good consistent work from the officials.


People hold up the NRL system on video decisions as the way forward but it also has a built in deficency, IMO. A referee calls a try and the video referee will be forced to call a try without a significant error is detected. So last week in the Manly game a try by the Manly winger had to stand because there was insufficient evidence to overturn the decision. Had the on field referee ruled no try the video referee would have had no problem confirming the decision. The try in that instance had to be awarded but probably shouldn't and wouldn't have been under the SL way of calling decisions.

If I don't see an almost identical try (to the McGuire one) given by the video ref next year I'll be amazed. That's what's annoying, on another day it'll probably be given.

What I find far more annoying is sets of fans, who don't know the rules or didn't see the incident properly, berating officials for getting the decision spot on.

In Saints game:

Watkins reaction looked like he didn't think he'd scored....but he did.

McGuires reaction looked like he thought he scored....but he didn't.

Trust nobody.

I think McGuire thought it was a legitimate try, I did on viewing the replay until Cummins explained it.

The NRL system is far more clear cut and puts the onus on the on off field ref to make the call, which should be the case. Over here refs seem very reluctant to take responsibilty for making the call which is wrong.

If you're going to have the referral system why then tie one hand behind the video referee's back?

Did you see the Manly winger's try last week? The video referee appeared obliged to give it based on the live call rather than on the basis of the video evidence which seemed to be leaning away from it being a legitimate score but not quite enough to rule out the possibility entirely.

The advantage of the NRL system, it appears to me, is more one of speeding up the VR process rather than necessarily getting the call 100% correct.

Yes i did, i never said their system was perfect.

I think McGuire has been watching too many LUFC games recently.
He is always quick to milk a foul or appeal strongly for something that he probably knows is wrong.
Just ask the Wigan fans or Phil Clarke


Until I was told the rules from the replay shown at the gorund last Friday I thought it was a certain try and did feel Bentham/Thaler had robbed us of 6 points.

Quite so and in that instance arguably not even as perfect as the one we have in SL.

Same =#FF0000home ground, Challenge Cup semi-final V Featherstone - Kevin 'too casual' Iro and another correct no try/knock-on decision given.

(The disappointing aspect is the number of bad decisions that will have occurred in these type of situations between these instances.)

You see I just had a totally different view of it, I thought Mcguire got the ball down, but it was short and then rolled it forward under his forearm on to the line I didn’t think he dropped it at all, it wasn’t until I watched it again an listened to the commentary that I hear they were looking to see if he had dropped it and I still think that if they were a metre forward that try is given.

Still, some of those you win, some you lose.

Very true..
Maybe we should get rid of the VR have 2 refs and let them make the decision at the time as they see it?
If we could say that 100% of VR decisions are correct then keep it.
But clearly mistakes are made by the VR some very obvious ( see steve ganson) that maybe we doin`t need them afterall.

Like almost everyone else, I thought it was a try because of the downward pressure by the forearm.
But then, the argument about having lost it from the hand sounded right, so I watched it again.

Now, I think that Lomax dislodged it (illegally as there were two men in the tackle), which rolled it back along the underside of the forearm.

But, as you say, some you win, some you lose.