Quote ="tigertot"Matty Smith is way off international class, but with the squad I'm not sure of the alternatives. Tomkins & Widdop have more flair but possibly less structure. Ratchford & Widdop? I'm not convinced HB is Ratchford's best position. Whitehead & Ferres for SR, Farrell is not big enough.'" Whitehead has missed 5X the number of tackles that Farrell has, and Farrell makes more clean breaks than either Whitehead or Ferres. Whitehead is in the top 10 for tackles missed, can we really afford to have someone so poor defensively playing against Aus or NZ? Being bigger doesn't mean being better. www.superleague.co.uk/matchday/player/1927 www.superleague.co.uk/matchday/player/2228 www.superleague.co.uk/matchday/player/10147

Quote ="tigertot"Matty Smith is way off international class, but with the squad I'm not sure of the alternatives. Tomkins & Widdop have more flair but possibly less structure. Ratchford & Widdop? I'm not convinced HB is Ratchford's best position. Whitehead & Ferres for SR, Farrell is not big enough.'" Whitehead has missed 5X the number of tackles that Farrell has, and Farrell makes more clean breaks than either Whitehead or Ferres. Whitehead is in the top 10 for tackles missed, can we really afford to have someone so poor defensively playing against Aus or NZ? Being bigger doesn't mean being better. www.superleague.co.uk/matchday/player/1927 www.superleague.co.uk/matchday/player/2228 www.superleague.co.uk/matchday/player/10147

Widdop was in the running for the Dally M medal (finished 5 or 6th if memmory serves), he has to be the first choice in the halves.

Quote ="Rogues Gallery"Whitehead has missed 5X the number of tackles that Farrell has, and Farrell makes more clean breaks than either Whitehead or Ferres. Whitehead is in the top 10 for tackles missed, can we really afford to have someone so poor defensively playing against Aus or NZ? Being bigger doesn't mean being better. www.superleague.co.uk/matchday/player/1927 www.superleague.co.uk/matchday/player/2228 www.superleague.co.uk/matchday/player/10147'" Here is why he's a gamble. He also produces more phenomenal offloads and wonder plays. I dunno whether it's worth it. I'd give it a go though. I think the clean breaks could be a little deceptive - he does tend to run out wide, and the ferocity of Wigan's forward play up the middle does tend to suck defences in and create space out wide. That being pretty much the game plan. I daresay I will be accused of Leeds bias (unfairly as there are very few Leeds players I'd pick this year) but I think Ablett has been better than either Farrell or Ferres this year. Dunno whether that's what the stats say. Farrell won't let anyone down. Question is do we take that or gamble on something more? I'm not sure there's a right or wrong answer to that.

Quote ="Rogues Gallery"Whitehead has missed 5X the number of tackles that Farrell has, and Farrell makes more clean breaks than either Whitehead or Ferres. Whitehead is in the top 10 for tackles missed, can we really afford to have someone so poor defensively playing against Aus or NZ? Being bigger doesn't mean being better. www.superleague.co.uk/matchday/player/1927 www.superleague.co.uk/matchday/player/2228 www.superleague.co.uk/matchday/player/10147'" Here is why he's a gamble. He also produces more phenomenal offloads and wonder plays. I dunno whether it's worth it. I'd give it a go though. I think the clean breaks could be a little deceptive - he does tend to run out wide, and the ferocity of Wigan's forward play up the middle does tend to suck defences in and create space out wide. That being pretty much the game plan. I daresay I will be accused of Leeds bias (unfairly as there are very few Leeds players I'd pick this year) but I think Ablett has been better than either Farrell or Ferres this year. Dunno whether that's what the stats say. Farrell won't let anyone down. Question is do we take that or gamble on something more? I'm not sure there's a right or wrong answer to that.

Widdop and Smith in the halves for me. Widdop’s played very well for the Dragons this year until a bit of a slump toward the last few weeks.

Tomkins defending in the line would be a defensive nightmare.

Backrow is a conundrum. I’d have Farrell in there for his workrate and he misses very few tackles. He needs to be alongside with a bit of an attacking threat. Ferres didn’t look out of place last year but hasn’t looked great for Hudders. J Tomkins hasn’t been back long enough for me to see if he’s up to it but he does offer some pace and versatility. Whitehead is great with ball in hand but still a defensive liability.

I’d go for

Tomkins
Charnley
Watkins
Shenton
Hall
Widdop
Smith
G,Burgess
Hodgson
Graham
J,Tomkins
Farrell
O’Loughlin

Clark
T,Burgess
Ferres
Hill

Smith will pass, which he does quite well, & kick, which he does less well. That's it, he doesn't create & he doesn't support breaks, as he lacks the pace. If Tomkins is up to it at HB he should start with Widdop. Do a job is polite for average. I accept that, if Brough is Scottish, there's not much else.

Farrell is a brilliant club player but not big enough at international. How many world class players of his size can you remember? We are not going to win the games by trying not to lose them.

I'd have Ferres in ahead of Joel Tomkins based upon the great showing he made at last year's world cup and Shenton over Sarginson but otherwise Schofield's 17 looks pretty good.

Tomkins' defence in the line worries me less than his defence at fullback. DCE and Cronk are deadly accurate with both high and cross-field kicks, neither of which Tomkins deals with particularly well.

Both Cronk and Cherry-Evans seem to have so much time when kicking it seems putting pressure on the kicker in the NRL isn't such a high priority. Perhaps if we could exert some pressure on either of these two we might blunt their effectiveness

Yep. Agree with that.

Yep agree with that. I think kick pressure is something we do more of over here. Whether we'll have the energy to do it is another matter, but I think it could be a way of giving ourselves a good chance of beating them.

I think we will struggle defending simple second man plays out wide and I think we will suffer from a lack of creativity/control in the halves. Whether he plays Tomkins or Smith alongside Widdop neither give you real creativity. Watkins needs to up his game otherwise we will have no way of breaking Australia/NZ down out wide.

I am looking forward to seeing if England can build on what was a pretty positive WC

Widdopp will offer control down the left and has an OK kicking game. The issue with our passing out wide is creating the space. There's no point in getting the ball to Watkins if every time he gets it he's face to face with Inglis.

Pressuring DCE/Cronk when they kick is one thing, but the chances of actually getting to them without giving away penalties are slim.

Yep. It's something Senior was expert at. Changing his line at the last minute.

I don't even think its last minute - the ability to change direction comes if you give yourself space to start with. Too many centres start too wide in the first place. If you come inside a bit you are able to get earlier ball by definition, and give your inside men more options into the bargain - its one of the things Jamie Lyon does so well.

OTOH if you then simply run diagonally towards your wing every time you'll do a Joel Moon, and just run the winger out of space. So its a combination of where you get the ball and what you do with it.

As you say, the worst thing anybody can do at the highest level is stand and wait for someone else to make you the space.

I'd just add that the last problem was glaringly obvious when GB got mullered by Australia in Brisbane a few years ago. Everybody was waiting for someone else to 'do something'. GB looked short of numbers every time they moved the ball wide, as the outside backs just stood and waited for something to happen. The halfbacks (McGuire & Horne) were reluctant to run with the ball for whatever reason, so the whole back division looked awful.

I remember people saying how 'well' the forwards did and thinking that was cr*p as well - Morley aside nobody matched the Aussies physically, and no forwards were acting as dummy runners. It was like watching a bunch of schoolkids trying to play RL.

Side to face Samoa announced apparently-

S. Tomkins
Charley
Shenton
Watkins
Hall
Widdop
Smith
G. Burgess
Hodgson
Graham
Farrell
J. Tomkins
Westerman


Clarke
Ferres
T. Burgess
Hill

No place for the best 13 on the planet??

Just heard on radio that he has pulled out with a quad injury.Same old story, great player but too many injuries.

Back row looks distinctly average at best. It may be enough against the Samoans but not against the big 2. Scratching my head as to how Joel Tomkins has walked straight back into the starting 13.Back line is as expected although i would have like to have seen Tomkins and Widdop as halves and Zak at FB.Also think Joe Burgess deserved a spot over Charnley.

He is always injured - he only plays the big games for Wigan and England - bet he plays against Australia

thats what I thought. Picks up a lot of injuries doesn't he. Though I would rather have him 100% for Aus

Not seen him play at all this year so hard to tell, but to do it after a handful of games back in league after a couple of years looking tremendously ordinary as a Union centre must mean he's played some trememndous football for Wigan.

In fairness, I watched him play 3 times at the back end of the year and he was probably the best back-row on the park in all 3. Defended well and with a bit of aggression, and carried the ball strongly.

I think a bigger problems was a lack of depth that meant the door was still open to somebody returning to the sport so late. If 3 or 4 players had really put a marker down over the rest of the season, he would be setting his alarm to watch on Sky. Many people have said he's lucky to be there, but really I can only think of Carl Ablett who is unlucky not to be.

Hardaker misses out as Smith and Widdop is probably best half back pairing and as Tomkins must play, that only leave Full Back for him. Not sure that you'd use Hardaker in the centres either.

You would certainly have him before Charnley though. Charnley is garbage.