Yes, to suggest that anyone should consider writing off the season in June is cringeworthy, IMO.

Who set these targets?

Players get injured. For all teams. To suggest anyone should consider writing off a season because of injuries sustained in May suggests that whoever feels that way doesn't possession the testicular fortitude our players have shown so regularly over so many seasons, even in championships earned when their team mates have been injured.

Who is complacent? I haven't ready anything about players throwing any towels in, just a few "fans"

Ah that old chestnut. State your opinion and set the precedent that if its' cgallenged the challenger is a bully.

Who proclaimed it the biggest and the best in the world? I suspect a few fans have gotten a little carried away. If the CEO has built up the squad in the press the good for him. Fans are foolhardy and fickle. After all, most on here didn't need any encouragement from the CEO to call the 2010 trophy less squad the best ever before a ball was kicked,

What on earth does. "after all we are Leeds Rhinos" mean? Our fans possessed such an arrogant outlook before this CEO took over and made us a force, not a laughing stock.

The only parodies connected with this club are its supporters who continually indulge in this rubbish every May and June.

Seems to me you have little confidence in your opinions.

By whom and why do you think that?

The glass has been half empty for you during the last few championship seasons.

Christ knows how you made in through the eighties and nineties.

The explanation of how I made it through the 80's and 90's is fairly straight-forward, I fell in love with the sport in the late 60's and I've continued in the same vein ever since. I'm a Leeds and Great Britain supporter first and foremost but happy to acknowledge good play both for and against my own chosen teams whenever I see it, indeed many of my favourite games and most memorable incidents came in games where Leeds didn't feature at all.

I freely admit to not being satisfied but it's born out of a desire for the club I support to be the best 'it' can be. If people are happy to settle for less (I don't understand that mentality) but that is entirely up to them.

Don't worry about it folks, you'll all be back to buy a season ticket in November.

wholesale changes are not needed but a few new faces, especially in the pack, is a must for me.
a top class rough, sh*thouse prop and second row would make a massive amount of difference.
very little go forward so burrow, sinfield and the rest are trying to work off the back foot.
a bit of tweaking here and there and we'll be fine

So Gareth to answer your questions,

I would agree to suggest things will not improve would be stupid - what will improve will be the results 2 games against Widnes, 2 against Wakefield, and Salford, Castleford, London to come but what is unlikely to improve is the quality on the field and this is a concern. However the real test will be Huddersfield, Warrington, Saints and Wigan away.

The team have consistently said the the WCC was an early season target, finishing higher in the league i.e. top has also been stated and winning the CC was always the target of the team - are you saying that these weren't targets at all and all the talk was just guff?

Fans are reacting to what they see on the pitch - which for two and seasons has been pretty poor and the standard this year is worse than it has been in the previous two. Law of averages suggests the increased level of performance in September and October cannot be maintained. Huddersfield showed in the CC that the aura re Leeds in big games is beginning to fade away. Given that the squad has been re-signed for next season and in most cases the next two seasons, it is difficult to see how this situation will do anything but get worse.

Leeds is one of the two biggest clubs in SL, it has a biggest supporter base, the best access to youngsters and the largest revenue stream this side of the pennines, it should be able to put a side out that can compete with the likes of Huddersfield. You really have to question how a player as poor as Vickery is getting a game at Leeds. Are supporters really arrogant is suggesting a certain level of play should be possible given all the advantages Leeds have over their rivals?

This board is full of posters who think they can bully others - and all this s, owned crap is symptomatic of those behaviours. The fact that many on here crumble as soon as their views are challenged says more about them than the bullying, arrogant attitude of those who challenge in that way.

You have to admire what Hetherington has achieved during his time at Leeds but I personally think his loyalty to this group of players is an issue. In any sphere in life if you stand still you will get passed by those prepared to change things up - good organisations do not rest on their laurels they strive for Kaizen. The bigger question for me is not whether Leeds are going win yet another GF but when is quality on the field going to take a turn for the better and what are the club going to do to make that happen?

Good on Sibbs, TVOC and Sal Paradise for sticking to their guns, they get the issue and I agree with all the points made. I did not make the original post to attack my team, I have also followed them for over 50 years and I love Leeds, I wish Maggs and all the old guard well, they have been the best Leeds team I have ever seen, that said the important words are 'have been'!!!
Nothing stays the same, I accept we cannot always be at the top of SL and this would not be good for SL or Sky, however we should strive to be the best we can. To that end in my opinion we need to phase in and develop a number of new players immediately, sadly the serious injuries we have sustained should bring this process forward as a matter or urgency.

Looking from the outside, what I can't understand is that the two teams who contested last years U20 final have been the most reluctant to give those young players some first team rugby, especially as those two sides probably have more 30+ year olds than any others.

It worked just over a decade ago



Maybe it would help if the club gave the coach a five year contract with a remit to grab the bull by the horns and make the use of what there is in the academy for the remainder of this season with the full support of a spend up to the salary cap for next season.

In return by the end of 2014 there should be a whole new first team built around Ward and Sutcliffe as main pivots (if good enough after a [ilengthy[/i opportunity to establish themselves) but new signings if not. By the start of 2015 the team should be challenging for honours and a review made then as to whether to extend or terminate the contract.

Either way somebody needs to be thinking about the unpalatable job of begining to offload some of the greatest team members to have ever worn the blue & amber. Kirke could have been a good start; Bailey instead might be the one.

Interesting thread. It's been interesting to watch this board, and see the blind arrogance that we have been rightly labelled with, demonstrated so often. As stated, you have ALL the advantages of being a large city, and several years of having the best, trophy winning side in SL ironically off the back of a wonderful , much vaunted, and rightly so, youth policy. looks like you have thrown the baby out with the bath water. Good on Sibs, TVOC and Sal for calling it as they see it, and not falling into line with the others.

Our board at the moment is the opposite, filled with people who are very critical of the management and coaching.. Bizarre

Some great points and i agree with many but imo it's still too early to write off the season.
Like i said the injured lads getting back and finding form will be key but at the same time i hope our recruitment doesn't stop at just re-signings.
On a positive i do think we now have a great chance and plenty of fixtures to give more of our U19's a chance and hopefully they will step up and show their potential.
In terms of our CEO he's the best around imo and wouldn't swop him for any other but i would ask whether its he alone that sees this re-signing policy as a good move or both he and the coach??
For me 2 or 3 have run their course and i'd be happy to replace all of them with younger squad lads from within the club so i hope we don't regret it.
I don't think anyone can deny that we are on the brink of one of the biggest squad transitions since Powell did his "out with the old and in with the new" and IF the current Coach is the man to oversee that then i think he needs nudging in that direction as of now especially upfront where imo we really could find ourselves losing 2 top FR's in one go and be left with Moore 33/34 Kirke34/35 a young and inexperienced Singleton and everyones favourite Bailey.
That to me would be pretty foolish as would letting some of our promising u19's go without at least giving them the odd game or seeking a decent loan period at Championship level.

McDermott 5 more years God no
This coach will not drop his stars Gh should get someone in who is not afraid to upset said stars and will pick his team on form and merit regardless of upsetting 1 quarter of the dressing room

Bit early to write off the season when Leeds only have to turn up for and target two good performances and two wins - a semi final and the grand final itself. All the other games are just inconsequential season fillers.

.....too true unfortunately. If Leeds were to win those matches (looking ever less likely - [uthankfully[/u) all would be 'forgiven' by the majority yet again.

Tell that to the SEASON ticket holders ....Think I'll save my brass and just turn out for play offs then .

thats what i did this year. £300 saved and not missed it TBH. on sky nearly every week!

Seems to me like fate has delivered us a great big turd in the guise of a load of injuries to key players and the arguments of the youth obsessives are just the flies buzzing around it.

Flawed analysis has attached itself to an unrelated problem.

Well said tvoc.

This one camp or the other poop is ridiculous.

Like I said yesterday, some posters just continue with a stubborn blind ignorance stance because they feel they have to. I bet they do not have the same opinion away from the message board. If they do then good luck to them, it must be hard. But the others need to stop trying to just sucker up to others.

There is grey areas. Like wanting to utilise youngsters to rotate the squad when easier games allow. Is it seen as that? No, it's seen as get rid of the players with many GF rings and just play a youngster every week. Posters not capable of seeing what is really put.

The need to strengthen from a position of strength is what every sporting organisation should strive for. Resting on your laurels should never be an option in this game.

Sadly the same things have been said on the Wigan board all season... Not a criticism of the Leeds achievements, though many Leeds fans have seen it that way, just that if you change the goal to a playoff at the end of the season, it will, and does diminish the games in the regular season..

You can go look, but some Wigans fans, although wanting to beat you at the Ethiad, would not have been too concerned if we lost... Thats a worry for me.

Problems would be less if you had others prepared to slot in...

The loss of McGuire should force us to play with a proper hooker and have Burrow at 7. Finally we will have a real 7 and a real 9 on the pitch in the correct positions. Although I think that will change when Stevie Ward is fit again and we'll see everyone shuffled around to accommodate Burrow at 9 and McShane benched or dropped completely.

The season is no where near a right off. We can defend. If we had been able to attack even 10% better we would have beaten Hull and Wigan. Saints was a blow out, not really sure WTF happened there, but not representative of the season so far.

Absolute rubbish the Coach and Skipper were very vocal during pre-season about rotation and indeed on numerous occasions various staff and squad members have bigged up our u19's.
Like others have said the rotation policy hasn't been implimented when some have been of the opinion we had chances to do as such.
No-one is obsessed and just so we are clear i've seen most of our u19's games and i'm still of the opinion there is stacks of potential amongst them and i'd like to see us utilise them in certain games rather than chopping and changing positions etc etc whilst also picking the 17 regardless of form.
At least had 2/3 had a go earlier on they wouldn't be going in "cold" now the saving grace is aside from the Giants away we have some fixtures which avoid the top 4 teams just as a side how have Sutcliffe and Singleton done since inclusion btw? 2 of the names a few of us have called for to get game time???
It seems easy for many to dismiss the u19's "because the coach hasn't picked them" well we have 1 and 1 younger squad member taht have come in and done well which is what some us only wanted to see some younger lads get a chance.
From my own pov i've said many times the coach has done well releasing Senior ,Webb et al and giving young lads a go but he seems less inclined to do it elsewhere within the squad.
No-one has said we should ditch 5/6 lads and throw all the kids in just give them chances to gain experience or at the very least give us a chance to gauge where they are development wise or even if we see them as not quite good enough and need to recruit at least we'll know.
It's a straight forward opinion and in no way the BS routine you are implying above.

Shock horror Rogues posts regarding age! Think about what's happend since last years U20's final? It might give you some help in understanding why?

@Rhinoms

It's not hard to prove that McDermott's coaching methodology contributes to GF victory.

Your argument that more squad rotation using young players would be better for the team is fatally flawed because it relies on the fact that McDermott wants something other than what is best for the team. Or that contributors to this forum knows the players' abilities better than he does. Both of those premises are demonstrably bollox.

Nothing wrong with constructive criticism and nothing wrong with alternative points of view. Nothing wrong with a bit of loyalty either for champion coaches and players.