Depends on the context - I am sure for the likes of Wakefield, Salford, Widnes etc just remaining in SL constitutes success.

That's where Leeds were last season after 23 rounds.

Much thanks to the success of Segeyaro who slotted in and did the required business.

And then he saw the light and went AWOL

I'd hope that as a club the era of accepting medicocrity was over. Whilst we might not actually win a trophy, that should be the genuine objective every season. The fact that after 2015 we had to suffer one of the worst seasons in the club's history ought to have shaken the place to its core. That we're now seemingly meandering to a point where keeping our heads in the top 8 is seen as a success really is poor. Last season could have been seen as an understandable blip - instead it seems to have set the new tone.

It will be interesting on here if we do win the next 4 games (big if I know) 6 from 8 would be a decent start to the season.

I think the whole league has changed and not particularly for the better, it does seem that the current system has dumbed the league down rather than raised the standards across the board.

Personally I'm 50/50 on the current Leeds situation I'm doing a GH and teserving judgement until ive seen a few more games.

I was joking, in response to a rather silly post by Gotcha. But the rebuilding has already begun hasn't it? How many young players do we have out on dual-reg or starting to get regular bench time and if the rumours are true then Leeds are very much in the chase to sign Widdop, which is exactly what we need. I can see at least one new forward coming in too, maybe more. We might be a year behind where we should be and heads may roll as a result but it does at least look like we're now in full on transition mode.

I really wish I could share your optimism.

Its funny that you are joking when someone pulls you up - second time in a week!!

Leeds have always had a host of youngsters out on loan - the majority of which are simply not good enough for SL. As we saw on Thursday the depth of the squad is simply not of sufficient quality to challenge the better sides in SL.

Signings in the off season would suggest transition is the last thing on the club's mind - saving money seems the top priority. No changes in the coaching/conditioning set up suggests the bosses are happy with the status quo. I simply don't get where you see full on transition. The Widdop rumour is like the Segayro rumour on a settlement just a rumour. If you were Widdop why would you come to Leeds over say Wigan with a proven pipeline of high quality youngsters coming through?

Maybe Leeds simply can’t afford to compete at the top while the ground needs money spending on it. Perhaps there will be some years of bottom 4 finishes and scraping into 8th place until the major bits of expenditure are out of the way?

The parallels with 95-97 are clear. An old guard of professionals on big money that are growing old together and a new generation coming in that aren’t ready and in some cases haven’t even been identified.

The need for a Murray type coach to come in may help matters but he was helped by the signings of the likes of Harris, Glanville and Godden. Would Hetherington willingly make signings of that expense now? A change of coach might help for a brief period but ideally you need the young players of quality to come in and be performing – rather like from 2002 onwards.

Leeds still have some excellent players but many of these have underperformed for well over a season – they also have some that are past it and some that are obviously not good enough. As an outsider looking in it looks as if the cap has been poorly managed with a lot of money tied up in players who’ve lost their enthusiasm and are going through the motions.

And here we go again.



But what an odd comment

Did the addition of "apparently" to my post not give away the fact I was taking the mick out of something or someone?
And what was the other joke or sarcastic comment you didn't get? Let me know and I'll gladly explain it to you Sal, I'm always happy to help the aged.



The majority will end up elsewhere, no doubt, but some will go on to be first team regulars. Just like happens at most clubs. Maybe i'm wrong but we do seem to have more fringe players than ever before and more on DR than ever before. Whether they're all going to make it isn't the point, the point is we're obviously looking to make changes and go through a transition period.

Yes the Widdop story is a rumour and will be right up until the point he or a club makes an announcement. That's how these things usually work but well done for stating the bleeding obvious again.

If I was Widdop and moving to the UK I'd go to the club offering the best all round package, not the club with some good youngsters. That might be Leeds, it might not be but he won't be turning down a club the size of and with the history of Leeds because of a current lack of youngsters.



You know, you don't have to put a negative spin on everything Sal, it just makes you look a bit sad when you do TBH.

Isn't optimism and hope the main reason why we all support our teams? That's what sport's all about.
(for most of us)

Well said.

Fancy folk having the audacity to interpret your post in any other way than in a joking manner



They'll be making stuff up next.

Oh look, his mate's turned up now. What a shock



Ok, just one more time....



Note the addition of the word "apparently"

Not even you and Sal are stupid enough to believe that was a serious point and one I believe, are you? You can't be. You really can't. No one's that stupid.

So when the Cas guy called you a D1ck head about who was going to win more trophies you didn't say I was only joking? - you are losing the gloss!!

There is no evidence the club is wanting to make changes - the CEO has said wanted to give the old guard a chance to put the wrongs of 2016 right. There is no evidence that Widdop is even coming to the UK - that will only happen if he can't get a gig in the NRL.

Widdop will go to the club that offers him the best opportunity of success - a team that will provide him the opportunity that will make him look good - the money is important but all the top clubs will be offering similar monies for him if he is indeed coming to SL.

The parallel with 95-97 isn't as clear cut as you make out IMO.

The opportunity to secure signings of the Harris, Glanville, Godden, Masella quality no longer exists like it did back then for numerous reasons which involve salary cap considerations and the value of sterling compared to the Aussie dollar.

Leeds back then were also in a position to take advantage of signing players who became free agents at the end of the SL war due to the demise of several clubs down under. Some of those available players salaries were also partly financed by SL Australia (News Corp) so they came cheap.

Leeds were also able to take advantage of being supplied with a free coach (Murray - a casualty of the demise of the Hunter Mariners) whose salary was bankrolled by SL Australia (News Corp).

Leeds were also able to take advantage of asset-stripping a club located in BD21 who were denied entry to SL and then tail-spinned into bankruptcy as a result in spite of securing promotion and healthy attendances. Leeds snapped up Powell, Farrell, Fleary, etc for a paltry £25k.

Add to that the poor quality coming through an absurd academy system which decides upon players futures at the age of 19.

On that basis, Leeds climb back to the top may take a lot longer than it did from 97 onwards.

'Its not dark yet , but its getting there'

You mean this reply to a (rightly) cocky Cas fan who was slating the Rhinos?



It's called banter mate, it's been going on between rival sports fans for years.

Hope that helps.

Im not convinced the re-build has begun to the degree it needs to be tbh there's huge holes that still need filling & wrt youngsters out on dual reg id hoped the likes of Lilley Sutty Baldwinson would all be regulars in their favoured positions.
Of course the Sutcliffe situation & how it's been handled is a different debate aswell.
When we started the transition in 2001/02 the youngsters had a much more solid team to come into littered with strong leaders & with more mongrel about em.
Yes the Widdop links will be good if we pull it off but i think we've left it very late to start both on/off the which which imo wastes another year.

It's where to start?
We're desperately short on individuals both old and young. To some extent that's down to McDermott's team ethic but his point has been hammered home over the years by his two recently-retired on-field generals. The way the current youngsters have taken it on board seems total and it could take years to address this issue, unless of course the current squad suddenly finds cohesion and belief. It'll be a bolt from the blue if this happens, mind.

Makes it all the less likely that Hetherington will sack McDermott then.

Am I missing something here? Our coach (talking about the letter than came out from GH) seems to think that the demise in performance has only just begun and that all this fuss and palava is due to just one game...

"[iI think what the club are saying is that we aren't going to change after just one game, we're not going to do it because we've had a really ugly day at the office. Those days at Cas are never down to one thing.[/i"

Might we do it if we'd had a really poor season, and a general decline in skills, ability and attitude across the team, maybe?

He goes on to suggest that it wasn't so much us who were bad, instead it was Cas who were very good.

"[iThey are usually a combination of a few things and the biggest factor was that Cas were white hot, although we shouldn't be conceding 66 points.[/i"

Perhaps, but GH needs to recognise that McDermott's record is of rendering a club a lot weaker than the promising setup it was when he started.

He took over at London when they'd previously finished 6th (play-offs) and 7th, coached them to 9th, 9th again, followed by 11th and finished off coaching them to 13th... a position they couldn't recover from.

It is to be hoped he doesn't lead Leeds to a similar fate if he's allowed to stick around.

Some very good points a lot of which i would agree with.The point stands though and I still think we are more in a 95-97 position now as opposed to an early 2000 scenario as some on here seem to think we find ourselves with a quick rebuild and back to business as usual. For me, we are a few years off a full recovery and that's if those at the top accept quickly that things need sorting out properly top to bottom again rather than trying to put lipstick on a pig and sending us further into the doldrums.

I should have worded my response more clearly.

My reference to the 95/97 position not being clear cut was to highlight the advantages available to Caddick/GH when they took over back then which were...

1) Rich legacy of Laughton & Bell Re: academy products.
2) Cheap availability of overseas signings who were without a club.
3) A free coach (Graham Murray) paid for by someone else.
4) Far less restrained by a salary cap.
5) Taking the opportunity to asset-strip a promoted club who had been crucified by SL.

I agree we are in a 95/97 position in many respects.

I disagree that we can get out of this mess as easily as we did since 95/97. That's what I was getting at.

Therefore my view is more pessimistic

Agreed, i don't there is a quick fix. to me how quickly we get out of the mess is down to how quickly the club accept their is a mess and show willing to rectify i it.

Interesting times.