JJB is a better comparison with Hauraki than Ablett last season - IIRC not much to choose between them other than Weller tended to cross the try line more. Hauraki strikes me more as an impact player in the mould of Lauitiiti. Perhaps when we get some more bodies back this is how they will be used...

On Kirke, he seems to have done a fair amount of tackling that suggests he was on the field for a reasonable stint, in which case ignore my previous post - that is a shocking effort for someone supposedly stepping up to be a prop.

Nice inclusion of Bailey's stats by the way tvoc

Brett Hodgson hasn't started particularly well in Wire colours has he. We were talking about this watching the match on Sat. Also, I think I heard announced in the background, unless my ears deceived me, that he got the sponsors MoM on the night. Which, if true, is bizarre to say the least.

Covert racism in full swing again.

[i"Our overall team performance compares well against Warrington." [/i

Really? I would have thought shipping in 7 tries a pretty poor attempt at competing, and makes for a poor comparison.

As for Gotcha, and his instant recall of the number of tackles that Hauraki has made/missed so far this season,

I'll simply leave it that he thought Sinny was sensational and inventive last week......

You may also have missed that Hauraki was the only forward to offer us any go forward. You praise JJB, Burgess and Ablett for a big performance, all of it in the tackling dept, and sadly behind the much malined Hauraki as far as taking the ball in, and way behind the shift Westwood and Harrison put in. Now THAT was a performance.

Lack of a good kicking game.....poor use of the subs...... etc, can be laid fairly and squarely at the coaches door IMHO

This may be a tongue in cheek comment but I find this post extremely offensive. Please explain how anything I have posted on this messageboard can be construed as racist, covert or otherwise.

I've been using this board for a longer than most, and have sung Bailey's praises in the past when it was unfashionable to do so, long before he was given a silly nickname that made him something of a cult player. I like Bailey and FWIW think he makes a valuable contribution to the team (yes, more so than Kirke!), but I also think that just because he has become a fan favourite doesn't exempt him from criticism. 'TMFMISL' should be doing more to justify this tag (when he is fit, naturally), and holding this view has nothing to do with racism. If you can't handle reasonable debate about your hero, try to engage with the arguments at hand instead of playing the race card.

I'd love it if Bailey came back and took over Peacock's job as pack leader, but the evidence suggests that he has a long way to go. I'd also love him to get picked for England to wind up the Aussies, but to do this he's going to need to develop a few more strings to his bow.

WOW! What a bite that is! Seriously ER... I know it's a sensitive issue but I think BB was joking.

He's got under my skin, like a Bailey niggle in the tackle...

whooosh!!

You've totally not understood my comment by a long, long, way.

You mentioned that tvoc included Bailey's no stats, so really I'm pointing the finger at tvoc, in a tongue in cheek way.

With this in mind, anything to say?

I understood you



Id be more concerned though that he called... nah, i'm not even going to go there

I think we both spotted the same joke opportunity Harrigan, I thought better of it too.

Me and TMFMISL again unfairly misunderstood.

We bring the niggle.

The Warrington forward who stood out for me on the night was the veteran Paul Wood & those stats don't cover his offloads which really tested us IMV.

I was commenting on the published OPTA stats from tvoc. Tries are not mentioned! But we did give them several of their tries plus a couple of lucky ones which on another day would have made it 4 tries each

If you care to compare the main stats of each team you will see in total metres gained, carries, tackles made, offloads, tackle busts and clean breaks, we were better than Warrington. While we conceded fewer penaties and made less missed tackles. Hence my comment!

Witrh regard to JJB, Burgess and Ablett. Yes they did put in a big tackling performance and as our defence is our main problem this is rather important. But they also made more metres per carry than Hauraki in the important hard yards area with fewer missed tackles and errors. Hence my comment!

I agree with you about our lack of a good kicking game but this is not down to the coach or are you saying the coach has banned it? The decision to kick is with the player when the field position is right. I am not aware that our coach is in radio contact with our players.

Jeez on paper you looked as though you would have won the game, i mean without seeing the score & just seeing stats i would place some money on leeds.

When you get the cohesion sorted leeds will be there or there abouts again, as the effort is clearly there (from most players)

All that above, simply illustrates the folly of judging a team, or indeed an Individual player's performance based on stats!



Radio contact?

Isn't that the job of the water bottle fella?

If a player doesn't know when and where to kick, then I would put that failure in the same category as having a poor tackling technique, and would expect it to be addressed by the coaching staff.

In order to get to an effective kicking game the player's might first wish to consider avoiding schoolboy errors while in possession?

Unfortunately coach McDermott thinks completion percentages are over-rated (or at least he did pre-season) although four games in he's muttering something about not holding on to the ball enough so perhaps some progress could be made in this direction soon.



As the weekly stats thread often decends into a discussion of the relative 'merits' of Bailey (actual appearance not required) I thought I may as well include them here.

I'm only surprised the finger isn't equally pointed at the Broughton deniers but that would also be mis-placed IMO if it were.

I'd rather we all just stuck to discussing the relative merits of the players irrespective of their race, colour, creed, religion, sexuality, politics etc

Yup, I called that.

He was very good. Hearty charges combined with first rate offloads that 'were on'

He's no mug.

It is also folly to ignore that fact that the stats show that Leeds were doing a lot of things right and need to cut out the errors.

Furthermore it illustrates the folly of those who have jumped in to criticise the coach so early in the season and blame everything on a more positve rugby style. A style which won us the game when all seemed lost against Bradford and has put us at the topof the scoring charts.



Are you suggesting that the water carrier runs around next to our kickers to tell them when and where to kick?



We are talking about very experienced international players here. To suggest that a couple of games with a poor kicking display is the new coaches fault is just unreal.

No, no, you've got it wrong Juan. Everything is the coaches fault. Not only has he managed to coach Kevin how not to kick, he's even managed to coach Ali how not to catch, and found time to work with Brent & Weller on how to throw passes that are perfectly weighted to allow for easier interceptions.

@ the idea that the coach is at fault for our poor kicking game.

"Whatever you do, Kevin, make sure that you kick it straight down the fullback's throat!"

Dearie me, its been a while since we've had so many silly people on at the same time!

Let's see if we can help them find their way.....



Why? I have a pair of eyes and can see what is unfolding before them. I don't need a very simplistic statistical model to arrive at that conclusion.



Bless. This exciting more positive style of rugby that appears to have got you in a lather has resulted in loosing as many games as we have won so far. Perhaps it's slipped your mind that we have also coughed up an average 30 points a game as well. And wonderfully encouraging that your scoring charts are, might I respectfully point out, that in the real world, it's who wins the game that actually goes home with a smile on their faces.



Silly boy. Feel free to show where I wrote that. I don't know if you can produce any stats to counter the generally held belief, that there may not actually be a need on a chilly winters evening for a chap to run on ostensibly to give someone a glug of cold water. Perhaps he's actually relaying the coaches thoughts on the game?'"

Maybe your pair of eyes need a pair of spectacles? Then the mist will clear.

Later you will be able to look in a dictionary and read the meaning of words 'patronising' and 'rude'



It is generous of you to give away one of your blessings when it is clear you possess so few.

You blame the loss of 2 out of 4 games on our positive style of rugby. Well with your new spectacles you will be able to see that we have been making some basic handling and defensive errors which have gifted many of the points. These are fixable

I would also suggest to you that we have an injury ravaged squad and some new faces to fit in which may also have had an effect.



Eh!



What is also "actually written" by you is..



Humble opinion...... I think not. It would appear the memory as well as the eyes need a bit of help.

EH! indeed. I should have remembered this old adage..


Still, nice use of colour......very inventive!.... and with some time spent [url=http://www.w3schools.com/html/default.asphere[/url... it could be sensational!

"When you have no basis for an argument abuse the plaintiff" M.T. Cicero