How about the opportunity he created for Watkins 1st try?

Regardless, shifting the attention away from McGuire and onto Burrow doesn't alter the fact that McGuire has looked shot for quite some time and creates absolutely zilch these days. It appears that other than me the only other person frustrated with McGuire's decline is the lad himself given the petulant side of his game lately.

McGuire might well create the odd half break but as has been said defenders are happy to let him have that, because he will usually go himself and can't get through any more. Reminds me of Iestyns latter days at the Bulls.

Will he?

All I ever seem to remember him doing at 7 was running down a blind alley over and over again and also choosing the wrong option the majority of the time. I don't have an agenda against him and have enjoyed his play from time to time out of dummy half, but as a 7, Burrow is average these days.

Couldn't agree more!

When did he last play 7?

Our 7 has been below average for quite some time. I can't recall anything of note he's created in a game not involving Cas or Salfod.


I've no less an agenda against McGuire than you have against Burrow but, honestly, if the best defence of McGuire's alarming dip that people can come up with is to attack Burrow then it speaks volumes. Nobody has yet replied with an example of superb play on McGuire's part have they?

Ironically some of McGuires best touches this season have come from him 'picking and passing' from the hooking position.

As has been stated earlier on the thread multiple times, neither Burrow or McGuire had good games. Both killed moves when Leeds appeared to be in a position to hurt Huddersfield. Don't forget that Sinfield didn't cover himself in glory either. But why must we turn this discussion into a peeing contest that pits one player against the other? If we want to compare their relative merits, the immediate aftermath of a defeat is the worst time to do it.

Let's not turn this into another Smith vs McClennan, Diskin vs Buderus, Kirke vs whoever's not getting picked etc etc.

If there's a problem, it concerns how to accommodate McGuire, Burrow and Sinfield and use them effectively. We all know their strengths and weaknesses:

Sinfield is a tremendous leader and kicker with a great rugby brain but possesses neither the speed nor the size to function as a traditional 6 or 13.
McGuire has a good footwork, instinctive support play, an eye for a gap and a good short passing game but increasingly lacks the pace to do it all himself. He's been getting more petulant in the last couple of years which is an issue that he should be able to sort out.
Burrow is one of the most devastating runners in SL but needs to be protected in defence to keep his workload down and to minimise set-plays where he has to defend against bigger opposition forwards. This means he must either be spelled from the bench or the other halves must do more tackling to accommodate him for 80 minutes.

It is not a case of either or, but how they all fit together, and for the most part the coach seems to realise this, even if it doesn't come off in every game.

I agree Exter but whenever I critique McGuire's increasingly dissapointing half back play others introduce Burrow into the conversation, failing to recognise that for quite some time he has been denied the opprtunity to play there, McGuire being preferred.

I'd be happy to discuss McGuire's efforts in isolation. His defenders don't seem capable.

The other issue of course with Burrow at dummy half, is that he's only going to be effective off the back of forwards winning collisions.

At the moment, only Delaney and Leuluai are doing that with any consistency.

Peacock at times looks like he needs lifting gear to get him up off the floor. Bailey spends half his time trying to pull the tackler on to win a penalty rather than concentrating on getting to his feet.

Off slow play the balls with set markers, Burrow's deficiencies in terms of "proper" dummy half work are exposed.

Good points Exeter and i agree with all.
Thus far this season we've responded to defeats well and not hit the "blip" of the last 2 years so the next 3 games will show if we have it in us to bounce back and not dwell on a well desreved loss.
Fair play G1 Mcguire has been way off at times as has Burrow ,Watkins and others i suppose its down to the coach to either have the balls to try something different or rely on us bouncing back again.
To be fair imo saturday was the 1st game in ages when our golden triangle failed to perform all at once and out of teh 3 the 1st one i'd rest is Mags and put RB on the bench or 7 with Mcshane starting and a place being found for Sutcliffe.
It's only suggestions and opinions though not OTT reactions to a loss and its a bit unfair imo to label posts knee jerk if they sugest 1 or 2 changes or chances for Kids who are ripping it up in their respective teams.

I guess that depends on how you define 'superb play' and whether it's necessary to set the bar at that level.

Viewing a re-cap of some highlights from the opening game of the season I note - the kick through for Sinfield's opening try, two thirty to forty metre breaks, a determined run at the line for his try, the pass that put Clarkson clean through for his try and another pass that released Clarkson again for another thirty metre break.

That was in game one of the season - likely to find many more examples similar to those in the next fourteen also - whether any qualify as being superb play is difficult to say but they contributed to an overall good opening night of the season.

I think Mcguire is more creative than he's being credit for. I would have him top of assists in the games I have seen, which could be proven wrong but I think he contributes more to games than G1 is giving credit for.

G1 has an agenda, remember this is someone who believed Buderus was a luxury given we had Diskin at the club, and subsequently criticised Buderus at any opportunity!!

Oh for a Danny Buderus right now!!

McShane to start, Burrow off the bench would be a good start, Bailey replaced by Singleton, Ablett back into the 2nd row and perhaps................players being spelled instead of flogged within an inch of their life!!!

He is by far our most creative player. His passing and movement is better than either Sinfield or Burrow.

The statue of Billy Bremner outside Elland Road has better movement that Sinfield!!!

He is credited with 7 try assists this season. Fewer than Sinfield, same amount as Jordan Tansey. Ranked 22nd in the league behind such players as Wilkin, Mathers, Joe Mellor and Tim Smith.

Players with more than twice as many as McGuire include Leon Pryce, Richie Myler, Richard Horne, Danny Brough and Rangi Chase.

Says the poster with the moronic user name.

And I was right, as 2009s top of the table finish and GF win earned with Diskin and without Buders proved, not to mention the 2012 GF win achieved after he'd bolted back to his first love, Newcastle

No I didn't. I stated he was a luxury. I never took issue with his contribution

[urlhttp://www.marathonstadium.com/showthread.php?12619-Newcastle-Knights-hooker-Danny-Buderus-dodgy-back-causing-ongoing-problems[/urlOh indeed.

Meanwhile, the Academy produced hooker who moved on was still playing SL in 2012 and 2013 whilst Buderus was back in the NRL.

Do you begin to understand the point I was making?

I do and agreed entirely.

Re the 'midfield trio' (or quartet when you add the second hooker), IMO when they're not confident the whole side looks like it doesn't really have a plan for each set. Given how often Sinfield/Burrow/McGuire have played together its odd that they don't really link up that well at times. In fact some of it is an old problem of too many chiefs, and playmakers crowding each other out - again due to lack of planning each tackle.

As for not being dangerous in the opposition 20, in the GF last year it was probably overlooked but Leeds played some very poor sets in Wire's 20 in the second half, including losing the ball without even getting to the kick on at least 3 occasions. That was when we were playing well.

I still tend to think that the best balance might be provided by Burrow off the bench, but a lot depends on whether the coach trusts McShane from the start. I'd generally rather that neither halfback has to make 30+ tackles a game though.

is losing to us that bad you think your team is in a mess, because im sure in the last 8 games you have beat all the top teams which was all above you at respective times, and with your 2 games in hand could be a point behind wigan. i think some big over reaction to a team that are the super league champions i mean challenge cup just doesnt go well for what ever reason but your side is still very good with the players in it, plus if you dont want burrow send him ur way i wouldnt be complaining

From watching the game you have to say the best team won and deserved it. I was very impressed with Huddersfield. I think Lunt is showing good form and we should have put alot more effort into trying to recruit him to Leeds. It's not that I don't like mcshane but for whatever reason he doesn't seem to be fancied by our coaches. If he makes an error he seems to be taken off never to be seen again.

As others have said I think burrow can be good from dummy half but I prefer it when he can chose his moments when to take the DH. His passing of the ball from slow play of the balls was poor IMO

That happens all the time!

I know.....5 GF's in 6 years

Huddersfield drawn away to Warrington in the quarter finals. Tough draw but winnable except for the fact Huddersfield's recent record V Warrington is fairly lamentable.

The full draw:

Les Catalans V Hull
Warrington V Huddersfield
Wigan V Widnes
Sheffield V London

Sheffield v London could be a cracker, from the rest I expect Wigan, Warrington and Hull to progress.

Sheffield could cause an upset, though London are favourites.

Wigan will be clear favourites.

The other two could go either way for me. Wire are up and down this year, Hudds are playing very well. Catalans are tough to beat in Perpignan and Hull are finding a bit of form.

I'll go for London, Catalans, Wigan and Wire as semi finalists.