Quote ="leicester_rhino"With a better depth in the forwards, and no real standout centre, any chance of seeing Ellis there?'" This is League freaks England team. Inbetween his trolling attempts he is interesting... sometimes League Freaks Prefered England Team: 1. Shaun Briscoe 2. Lee Smith 3. Gareth Ellis 4. Michael Shenton 5. Peter Fox 6. Kyle Eastmond 7. Danny McGuire 8. Adrian Morley 9. James Roby 10. Sam Burgess 11. Jamie Peacock 12. Ben Westwood 13. Kevin Sinfield 14. James Graham 15. Eorl Crabtree 16. Sean O’Loughlin 17. Scott Moore www.leaguefreak.com/news.php

Quote ="leicester_rhino"With a better depth in the forwards, and no real standout centre, any chance of seeing Ellis there?'" This is League freaks England team. Inbetween his trolling attempts he is interesting... sometimes League Freaks Prefered England Team: 1. Shaun Briscoe 2. Lee Smith 3. Gareth Ellis 4. Michael Shenton 5. Peter Fox 6. Kyle Eastmond 7. Danny McGuire 8. Adrian Morley 9. James Roby 10. Sam Burgess 11. Jamie Peacock 12. Ben Westwood 13. Kevin Sinfield 14. James Graham 15. Eorl Crabtree 16. Sean O’Loughlin 17. Scott Moore www.leaguefreak.com/news.php

Has Ellis been playing centre in the NRL or has everyone forgotten his displays there for us in emergency capacity last year?

No he hasn't and I wouldn't expect him to play there at International level either.

I think this Australian side are too good to worry about, the best thing England can do is go out, play and not worry about the score if that makes sense!!

I personally think that we should keep people in their best positions, and if we are weak in other areas, then work on how we overcome them.

Our forwards should allow us a decent platform. Our backs may not be that decent, but you can go a long way with decent organisation, and training.

Win the forward battle, be organised in attack and we may have some joy (or less failure). It worked well for the bulls for many years

I thought we looked most dangersous when we flung the ball around. Arm wrestling with the Aussies is a difficult excercise - they do it every week and have proved to be masters of slowing the PTB to a standstill.
Having said that we will need the likes of Burgess and Ellis to rattle a few teeth in defence and we need to make yards. A bit of biff wouldn't be unwelcome either.
The thing we have to do - which we have been consistantly awful at when playing at international level - is kick well. Our kicking game (short attacking and kick chase from defence) has been one of the most dissapointing aspects of GB/England play for my living memory. Leeds arm wrestled Melbourne into submission on the back of a terrific kick chase. We simply can't afford to play the game near our line - we will get butchered. We want the Aussies bringing it out from nea their 10 metre line so Burgess, Ellis, Peacock, "Jammer" and co. can really take pot shots at them.
If we get good field position then we have to have the confidence to offload whenever possible.

I'd just like to point out that between them Burrow, McGuire, Sinfield, and the Sts equivalents created one legitimate

try on Saturday. Burrow may have had 'time on the ball' or whatever but didn't do enough with it IMO.

Whereas Myler and Tomkins didn't priduce any tries in the GF.

He has a point though.

As sad as I am it went through my mind in the car after the game that Malcolm Andrews would have a field day with the lack of created tries in our GF.

1) How the frig does Sykes keep getting in these squads?
2) The backline as a whole looks pretty poor. Shenton (big/quick enough?) and Eastmond (relativley untested at centre) would be my pairing, although I think Grix at Wakey was unlucky not to get in the squad at least.
3) Halfbacks I'd have McGuire at 7 and Tomkins at 6. McGuire really stood up against the Kiwis in the WC and I think Tomkins will trouble whoever he plays against.

At halfback I certainly wouldn't risk both Tomkins and Myler. I'd agree with starting Tomkins and McGuire, as being at halfback will force McGuire to handle the ball more often. My only question would be if/how to use Sinfield. As the primary open-field kicker and goalkicker fine, but what other role would he have with the ball?

My point about our halfbacks - from wherever they may be - wasn't to compare those chosen with those left out, but more to highlight the fact that I don't think we saw the best of the Leeds duo on attack in the GF either, for whatever reason.

Anyway, I'm not really in a position to judge a lot of the newbies - I simply don't understand picking Lee Smith given he's leaving the code altogether and Tony Smith has stated that this squad has been picked with an eye towards the next world cup.

He doesn't though as his point hinges entirely on

Smith is still only 23, who's to say he won't play RL again. He could even be back for the next world cup. So his inclusion isn't that much of a surprise IMO.

I don't get why people think Smith shouldn't be picked, we should go into every tournament best equipped to win said tournament with the best players that are available at that time, Smith is clearly worthy of a place so should be picked, regardless of who he is playing for next year.

Should we have dropped him for the GF because he isn't playing for us next year? I don't see the difference.

So using that rational why pick a young player who hasn't played since July because he has great potential for the future?

I wouldn't, Myler shouldn't be in the squad IMO, Burrow however...

He last played in Round 23 of 27 presumably due to a decision by his then club coach.

He was excellent for England V France mid season.

He's got potential but he's also a fair player already and yes I also wouldn't have by-passed Burrow so soon, who finished the season well after an indifferent start.

England Team to face Wales:

Paul Sykes,
Peter Fox,
Sean O’Loughlin,
Michael Shenton,
Tom Briscoe,
Sam Tomkins,
Richard Myler,

Adrian Morley,
Scott Moore,
Garreth Carvell,
Gareth Ellis,
Ben Westwood,
Sam Burgess.

Subs:
Louie McCarthy-Scarsbrook,
Mickey Higham,
Chris Bridge,
Danny Tickle.

No surprises there with O'Loughlin at right centre.

We should play an u20 team against wales,this is a meaningless mis-match imo.
If we are selecting an experimental england team surely we'd have a better challenge against ireland.

TBF a few havent played for around a month so its to give them game time too.

That's why i suggested ireland mate they'd be a much stronger test than the welsh imo.

Am I the only one who finds O'Loughlin at centre a bit baffling? Has he played there much before? More importantly, is he ever likely to play there in a proper international match? Much of my confusion stems from being pretty sure I've seen Chris Bridge play there on some of the occasions I've watched Warrington. In fact I'd assumed that was the position he was in the squad to play.

Puzzled. Am I missing something?

Nope, you're right to be puzzled.

I'd agree with that. I also think Rob is unlucky to lose what was his number 7 short. Ignoring the dead rubbers mid season against FGrance Robs' international career started wit ha man of the series award in the series win over NZ in 07. His world cup wasn't great but then again it wasn't Paul Sykes-esque either.

...and then, that's it. Discarded. Done.

Meh. Pleasing that he, Senior and JJB will get a decent off season.

Be interesting to see what Johns does for Mylers game I think. I know it's only a fortnight but still.