And when he wasn't ill Burrow was mainly used as the starting hooker.
I didn't see much of him when he as Wakey so wasn't really sure what we were getting.

This year he has been immense. His distribution, creating space for the runners, putting people through gaps and he's also been creative near the oppositions line.

Massive shame for him and us that's he's missing the business end of the year because he's been an integral part of the good things we've done this year.

Not having Aiton available wasn't the problem, just as not having Millard or McShane available was never a problem. Having Aiton unavailable and having Burrow unavailable and not having a youngster trusted to step up was the problem.

After Aiton was injured we went three games unbeaten, including beating Wigan and a record CC Final win. Burrow was then injured and we lost 3 straight games with pretty poor performances. Burrow comes back and we beat the form team in the league.

I would be confident in speculating that had we had either McShane or Millard available for those games we wouldn't have missed Aiton to a great level.

Whether you win or lose in their absence isn't the sole measure of whether you miss someone or if they're a good player.

We won big games before with great players missing....Webb '08 GF, McGuire 2012 playoff vs Wigan, Buderus the 2nd half of 2009 to name but a few. Are those 3 guys journeymen or average players because we were able to find a way to win without them?

Definitely not

I agree with that Diskin in 2004 was every bit as influential as Buderus in 2011 and Aiton in 2015

Moa is like Aiton - an average player playing in a really good side - plus in Moa's case possibly the best coach in the game

By the time Perry and Asotasi got here they were already in decline before they got here - so it was a huge surprise how things panned out

No but you are kind of proving my point for me, those players were replaced by other good players. Our problem wasn't that we lost Aiton. It was that we lost Aiton and Burrow.

There are many many players out there who can offer us what Aiton does. There are very very few who can offer what Hall or Watkins or hardaker or Peacock or Cuthbertson can.

If someone were to say you must lose one of your first 17. How far down the list would Aiton be? For me he is pretty near the top.

He is going to be easier to replace than JP or Sinfield. There aren't that many McGuire's about. Hall and Briscoe are two of the best anywhere. Watkins is in my opinion the only world class centre Super League has developed, Stevie Ward is an outstanding young talent. There aren't many utility forward with Abletts skills available, Cuthbertson does a job nobody else in world RL is doing right now Hardaker is the best full back in SL by a distance. Aiton just isn't near their level

Aye, remember watching Asotasi coming off the bench for Souths a few times season before he came and you could see then he was a shell of his former self.

There seems to be a pattern of Pacific Isles forwards who explode and are absolutely unplayable for a few years before just turning in to puddings. MoiMoi, Asotasi, vaeliki, Smith, Feka, Tupou, Smith Even the likes of Cayless, Solomona, Rauhihi, Anderson became a bit of a plodder, recently the links of Lima, Luauki,Sa and manu have disappointed.

I don't think anybody is saying that losing Burrow wasn't also an issue. But does that make Aiton a journeyman who is nearer the level of Millard and McShane.....not at all.

Sinfield missed a few games through injury and with Sutcliffe we won away at Cas and Catalans and home to Wigan. Briscoe missed a load of games and Handley came in and performed well and scored two hat tricks against tomorrow's opponents........does having good backups and Plan B's that can work lessen someone's quality. Does winning games without Sinfield and Briscoe make them unimportant.

Aiton might not be as good a player as Peacock or Watkins....again doesn't mean he's not a good player. Certainly a lot better than some are giving him credit for on here.

Rob Burrow has 6 Super League titles, 2 Challenge Cups, 3WCC, 3 LLS, 2 Harry Sunderland awards,
Matt Diskin has 4 Super League titles, 2 LLS, 2 WCC, a Harry Sunderland award
Danny Buderus has a Dally M award, 1 NRL, 1 Tri-nations title, State of origin title, the most capped NSW in SoO history, and a Super League title.

What has Paul Aiton done in his career to be judged at the level of those players?

The point isnt that Burrow could replace him, but that most hookers could replace him. Most hookers in SL could step in to Aitons role and we wouldnt really miss a beat.

Again, who has compared him to Danny Buderus? No one has said he's as good as him, but to place him alongside Millard and McShane is ridiculous.

And in his two seasons at Leeds he's won 2 CC and LLS. We might add a GF (and yes he won't be playing in the final but he's more than played his part in getting us there and will fully deserve to get a winners ring if we do lift the trophy).

Had he stayed longer, or joined a few years earlier then I'm sure his CV would look even better. That he's not had the longest Leeds career again isn't a marker of whether he's a good player or not.



And most find that a laughable idea.

The point I believe is that Aiton played above himself for Leeds this season. He and Cuthbertson had a great playing relationship which hasn't been replicated with with anyone else who played hooker. Hope he proves me wrong but can't see Cuthbo been the same force without a quick, clever dummy half next season.

The biggest single thing about Cuthbertson has been his ability to offload in almost every tackle.Even surrounded by 3 and even 4 men at times and 90% of the offloads have been good. That is where he has been such a revelation.Are you seriously trying to say Aiton has been a big factor in him being able to do this?

This I agree with.

Thats just dumb, If he isnt with Buderus, Diskin and Burrow out of that list, who is he with? I didnt even say he was with those, i said he was closer to McShane and Millard than Buderus, Diskin and Burrow.

There is a big difference between those players, 1 of which is a rugby league legend, 2 are leeds legends and the likes of Aiton.

We would see an improvement in our performance if we replaced AIton with Roby, Clark, MciLorum, Milner, Robinson, Houghton, and id say Pelissier nor Dwyer or even Henderson could replace him without a significant drop off.

Has Cuthbertson been the same player since Aiton was injured? No he hasn't and yes I'm seriously saying that!

No he definitely hasn't. If people cannot understand how Aiton - a very good hooker, whose distribution, pass selection and ability to draw in defenders before passing enables the players running off him to win the collision as they are getting quality ball in more space - has been very influential on the players around him, well they don't understand the modern game.

If he came through our Academy he'd have a big collection of winners medals and individual awards. The fact that we signed him from Wakey when he was in his late 20's seems to lead some to think he mustn't be that good.

Well, the whole team was pretty off colour after Wembley and he was superb again last week, check the stats.

Fair enough, your entitled to your opinion, but mine is Aiton has little to no bearing on whether Cuthbertson performs to a high level or not.

That last paragraph is embarrassing. You've come to a conclusion about Aiton's ability on factors other than his performance levels.

Wouldn't waste your breath. Par for the course with him unfortunately.

Your previous post a very good one by the way.

So the hooker, the player who touches the ball the most, the player who feeds the forwards with most of the ball they receive has no bearing on their performances?

We click better as a team no doubt with a proper hooker, and Aiton has performed admirably this year i agree.The whole team has dipped though since wembley up to last week, we were quite abysmal at times from 1-17 in the games against Catalans and Cas. IMO, and of course it can't be proved, but things wouldn't have been much different had Aiton been playing or not we were just not at the races. And on Cuthbertson, i will say again his main game has revolved around his offloading and ball handling skills, Nothing to do with Aiton although i take your point his service from dummy half helps.

Opposing defences have been able to wrap him up easier since Aiton's been out. Don't get me wrong, I think he's got an outstanding offload game but a set defensive line who aren't made to 'think' are able to minimise the space he gets the ball in and clamp the ball, or at the very least slow our attack down.

Fair enough pal.I do see your point, i think Aiton been great this year for the whole team, but also think he is replaceable and he is being a little over rated on here due to our team drop off after Wembley.