Sometime the self destructive attitude comes from not caring about the world around you, you see yourself as unworthy and sometimes you don't actually care about anyone else either, you already have a low opinion of yourself so you do something that others won't like but you really don't give a monkeys how you are perceived. I've done things I'm not proud of when I've been at my low points, I've hurt people, not intentionally but just because i was locked into my world and didn't care about anything.
Bailey could have been a daft lad just because, or he could have been a daft lad because of the depression but i doubt he would use depression as a get out clause because he obviously found it very hard to come out and say.
Would he sacrifice his pride, to excuse his past if he wasn't genuinely depressed? I doubt anyone would.

I know me and Smokey are having our run ins but he's just pretty much nailed my life in one paragraph. It's really surprised me (in a good way) how many others on here have had the same struggles and have had the balls to talk about it because it's so hard to share and I went 2 years without speaking to my three closest friends that I use to share a house with. I without notice suddenly packed all my stuff up and moved out without telling them on a NYE's whilst they were out buying stuff for the party that night, I'm a lucky b@st@rd that they forgave and tried to understand this as they actually did try to reach out me at the time as they could see I was struggling with stuff but I kept pushing them away (and skip forward and just a few months ago I became godfather to one of their kids). I took the option I did because I'm arguably the most stubborn c**t you'll meet (those of you familiar with my posting history will attest to that

) and I actually opted to drive my friends away and think of me a "c*nt" rather than open up and have them think of me as a "weirdo" or "nutjob". You actually prefer the idea that people think you're a pr*ck instead of needing help. That's how f*cked up it can get.

Great post - and you're absolutely right, it can manifest in a number of ways - strange/poor/irrational behaviour absolutely being examples.

My point is that it's not always genuine - and there has been no behavioural change in Ryan, the things he's done over the past 18 months are no different to the rest of his adult life, and follow on from a pattern in his behaviour he's had since early childhood - some may think that means he's had long and deep rooted mental health issues, some might feel his behaviour is nothing to do with the depression and that he's been suffering and the behaviour is a seperate issue, some will be cynical and think he's had a lot of grief from the fans of his new club and wants to find a way of dampening that, getting them to cut him some slack and getting them on his side.

Maybe I live in a different world to those who think my view is outrageous (not talking about you here Smokey) - but I've seen false claims on numerous occasions for various benefits - and taking everything into account, with this individual, sadly I'm of the cynical stance.

His behaviour could be a separate thing, let's imagine it is.

Would you still come out and say you were suffering from depression, in this sport if you wasn't?
It's probably the 2nd hardest thing to admit behind being gay due to the merciless taunts of those that don't understand.

Yep - let's take the individual in this circumstance out of the equation...

Clearly it would be difficult, it's always difficult to admit when you've got a problem - particularly one of such a sensitive nature. Having said that though, whilst the banter and taunts can be ruthless at times, in every rugby team I've been involved with, there is also a deep mate-ship and support network that come together whenever one of their own is doing it tough (whether that be personal issues, form drops, injuries etc), so there is no need for it to be tough - I genuinely believe if someone has an issue of this sort, the first priority of the team would be to support their mate and do whatever they can to help - sure after time here will be banter, taunts, digs about it (and yes it can be brutal), but that's part of the team environment, I'd be disappointed if that didn't happen if it were me on the receiving end as it would mean I was being treat differently...

Going public with your struggles to the media is something entirely different - if it's done to encourage more people to speak up, then great - but again, the cynic in me also believes it is occasionally done to try and justify or reduce the consequences of ill-discipline.

Complete nonsense. The ignorance and lack of support for Mental Illness in Men is unparalleled, and in employment more so. I would expect Bails to more hide behind a "Hard Bloke Front" to explain his behavior rather than admitting "Weakness" in a Mans Sport for Manly Men. A select few may have known prior to his announcement, but not many. When you suffer from Depression, you wear a Mask to hide your true self. This mask could be the Clown, the Hard Bloke, the Ladies Man, anything, but it's not the real person, and it's a coping mechanism to get through each day.

It seems utterly bizarre to focus on a handful of (alleged) instances of faked depression in the face of the statistical evidence and peer-reviewed literature that confirm depression to be both widespread and under-reported within the population. As for knowing Bailey for 25 years, I dare say Gary Speed's death - just one example of many - came as a shock to some who'd known him for a similar period. Many people show a tremendous capacity for hiding what's inside.

I've not got a focus on a handful of alleged instances, and am well aware of the under reporting of the issue - I merely commented on my cynicism of this 1 particular case - for reasons I've pointed out.... And to be honest, it's going public to the media that raises my suspicion - some will feel he's done this for the greater good, to break down barriers linked to mental health - Knowing the individual, I choose to believe it's been done for cynical reasons to try and get the Wire fans onside - make them forgive and forget his past misdemeanours, it ties in with his need to show them he's a 'reformed character' and worth a shot...

Do you accept that false claims ever happen?

The greater good may well not have been a factor in his decision to go public. Relief at knowing what's been wrong and the lift that comes from a recovery could very easily be causal in terms of wanting to talk about it.

False claims? I don't personally know of any but accept that they're probably sometimes made by those hoping to avoid jail and the like. Seems unlikely Bailey would play for the sympathy vote in this way; if he stopped to think about the reaction to his going public - and I'm not too convinced he stops to think a great deal - then I'd have thought he'd expect much the same response as you've given.

Some undoubtedly do. Those I have encountered have been fairly obvious, not that they have necessarily got the best help. You could justifiably argue there are many people I know who are hiding it. I think with Bailey he is more mentally weak than 'just' depression. The times I have heard him speaking he really struggles to put an articulate sentence together. Those with a poor education & background often do. I come from a background of low expectation & ambition. A lot of people I grew up with, when under emotional stress, resort to extremes, often violence, as they don't have the capacity or opportunity to express their feelings any other way. I don't like the labeling of people as depressed, paranoid, or whatever. That is often too convenient & an excuse to start pumping people full of drugs. I know they can give some relief, my father died last year with dementia having consumed a cocktail of prescription drugs that would make Keith Richards wince.
What numerous people would benefit from is mental stimulation & just to talk, which I think is what Bailey did with Sporting Chance. Stuffing people with mental problems with numbing drugs so they will quietly sit in front of a TV in a nursing home, overseen by well-meaning 17 year old girls does neither.

And you'd know this how, exactly?

Because I have enquired about their welfare or spoken to them.

And the ones that aren't obvious?

Surely Bailey must have been diagnosed with this condition before going public ? Hasn't he been having treatment from a well known clinic? And After Tony Smiths statement about Bailey I tend to believe him.

I'm sure their could be under reporting of depression within our population, but it would be extremely naive to think that "fake" depression is not also under reported. Unfortunately, human nature is to take advantage of anything that could could possibly give us a bit of a "leg up" in certain situations. Fake depression will be used as a tool by many people on a daily basis in this country, it's just the way society works. As depression becomes more widely diagnosed, a number of those diagnosed, possibly growing, will be bogus. I've known more than a handful of people feign depression, to receive enhanced redundancy payments, to receive a smaller prison sentence, and some to just make their lives generally easier for themselves. I've also lost friends to suicide, and have wider family members that are diagnosed and medicated for depression. Depression is a terrible thing to suffer, but also it has become more acceptable to "adopt" the condition when it suits certain people's circumstances.

Which completely misses the point that there is a massive stigma attached to mental health...we're in catch-22 (the book) and one flew over a cukoos nest territory here - to fake depression you'd probably need to have a mental health issue!

Aside from the vocal minority, there are some really inspiration posts on here.

My father is bi-polar (and has been basically for all my life) and I've recently admitted to myself/been diagnosed with depression. Thankfully I have a really good gp (my dad on the other hand doesn't).

It's and the stigma/perceived stigma is huge. Literally the only people that know about my diagnosis (about 6mths in) are my GP, my therapist and my wife. I can guarantee that any of my friends or colleagues would be utterly suprised if I told them. Like most (male) depressives I am f*ing amazing at keeping up appearances.

So anyone like bailey that can come out publically deserves respect in my book.

I think it'd be good to share one of the best quotes I've come accross, its from the author Matt Haig and sums up depression and anxiety way better than I ever could...

That is spot on.

My head feels like a contradiction all the time.

I nearly took my life mid December just gone and if only for a random drunken accidental phone call off my sister at 0130am early Saturday morning, i wouldn't be here now, notes written, finances sorted all plans in place sat in a country lane in Codicote, Hertfordshire.
Part of you wants to go and another part of looks for anything, any small reason to keep you here. Every day through November and December i had an internal fight to carry on or end it and it was a fight i only recently won due to heavy support and strong medication and me being honest, you need to reach out to people otherwise it can overtake you.

Your honesty is massively impressive, glad you got the help and support you needed.

The quote above someone posted is so spot on....

"Matt Haig wrote:
Having anxiety and depression is like being scared and tired at the same time.
It’s the fear of failure but no urge to be productive.
It’s wanting friends but hate socializing.
It’s wanting to be alone but not wanting to be lonely.
It’s caring about everything then caring about nothing.
It’s feeling everything at once then feeling paralyzingly nothing."

Honestly just hearing that others on here have had similar troubles (I don't wish they had btw) is a real eye opener for me as you often feel like no one else has a clue about what you're going through. As great as friends and family can be, hearing from someone who has/is going through the same makes such a difference.

One thing that doesn't support mental health is spending too much time on line and believing some peoples views are representative of the majority.

I've had a predisposition towards depression for about 20 years, and it's only in recent years that ive opened up about it since getting to a point where I didn't want to go on anymore. On top of what is a family history of mental illness I also suffered debilitating arthritis (now controlled with weekly injections) and I had also planned a family with a girlfriend who then had a termination against my will, I'd never been to a lower place.

Through all of this I've used my career in sport development and voluntary coaching (in my 13th year) to give me a purpose. I've worked incredibly hard to better myself through these outlets, seeing a councillor for the last 2 1/2 years and taking medication aswell as overcoming the shame of it and opening up to others. It could have been very easy to give in completely, and I have been at that point, but I feel I deserve more.

Good to hear so many empathetic people.

Well done for being so brave and challenging it and working to overcome your struggle.

Again awsome honesty. This is like a support group now



This bit in particular is bang on with me (a long standing predisposition is exactly the right term for me too)....

I've had a predisposition towards depression for about 20 years, and it's only in recent years that ive opened up about it since getting to a point where I didn't want to go on anymore. On top of what is a family history of mental illness

Steady on mate - You can't come on here talking about harsh realities that there are plenty of unscrupulous people - you've got no empathy, no heart.... You want to kick a man whilst he's down...

Interestingly, we put all our managers where I work through a counselling course run by the mental health charity MIND (we had poor absence records, with lots of work related stress). The course was aimed at identifying signs of mental illness and preparing our managers for conversations - enabling them to provide the best possible support. What MIND also did was introduce a 'parachute document' for managers to use in 121s. In real basic terms, it was a questionnaire that helped identify what was causing the person problems, it covers the whole spectrum of mental illnesses (but is only a guide), but focuses mainly on identifying if someone is depressed, stressed (they're 2 different things chemically - stress is not a mental illness) or finally, 'swinging the lead'.... Whilst MIND are and were clearly focussed on supporting those with mental illness, they also helped the company with ways and means of identifying and dealing with the urine takers.... Someone better get on to MIND and tell them how un-empathetic they are, believing some people could try and blag it.