Why?
Afterall there were players that were happy to see TS leave apparently that doesn't or shouldn't cloud what success we had under his tenure.
3yrs 2 GF WINS ,1WCC WIN and 1 LLS plus a CC final spot plus he is the only coach to retain a SL title and win a GF and a WCC in the same year says it all really tbf.

Yes he should be in the Hall of Fame. Very few coaches leave clubs under the best of circumstances. Smith is unique in my time for leaving at the top. However they leave, you have to look at their records in total, and on that score Bluey is behind only Smith in my time.

BTW I still couldn't give a monkey's what the players think of the coach if they are winning. That was true under Smith, Bluey and will be the case for anyobody else.

Yes of course ,he was engaged to bring continuity of success albeit with an excellent squad ,and that is what he did 4 trophies in 3 seasons .Yes he should be in

Why the rush?

If the decision had to be made today then the answer should be yes. But, in ten years time we might be looking at a scenario where McDermott coached the team to four straight GF wins and his successor bagged another couple (unlikely? perhaps.). Like it or not, such a scenario would set McClennan's (notable) achievements in a slightly different context.

I think you have a far too rosy a view of Smith. Yes, Smith turned the team around in 2004 which was a massive acheivement given the decades of underachievement. BUT Smith failed to win silverware in 2005 when it was effectively on a plate, and presided over a very poor season in 2006 (which was far worse than 2010 under McClennan). This tends to be overlooked given the circumstances of Smith's departure, and his success in turning Warrington around.

Anyway, McClennan should be inducted IMO.

Bluey should be in for sure!

As has been said there are a few with short memories regarding smith. Even in 2007 we were shocking at times. It felt like Smith had lost the helm. The team needed a change and it would appear Bluey(a more personable bloke) was what was needed. the rugby we played in 2008 and was Awesome and 09 was pretty good too.

Actually, whilst there was much unsubstantiated rumour on here about what the players thought of Smith they all spoke glowingly about him after his departure unlike McLennan who few have supported whilst many have taken the opportunity to stick the boot in.

There's some truth that coaches are fortunate to inherit the squad and culture that GH has built but IMO, if you win it, you win it and to do so twice on the bounce gets McLennan my nod.

Possibly. Conversely, it might be that there are also some with longer memories who recall far worse times prior to his arrival.

its easy to speak badly of a coach if you're not starting each week or prefer a different style of coaching
bluey may not be the best technically but he could motivate any team and but some very bad luck regarding the timing of injuries could have won the cup and a third straight grand final

theres no doubt that the team has benefited from having so many great players playing at their peak at the same time which must have made winning easier so bluey really only managed their mind set and he did that brilliantly so deserves his place in the hall of fame

The players generally credit Smith not just with helping them to win things, but also in terms of making them much better players and improving their skill base. There is little evidence that McClennan was really into that kind of stuff. IMO the work Smith did was, and remains, critical to the subsequent success of the team.

Have Tony Smith's acolytes succeeded in denying Brian McClennan a place in the Hall Of Fame..... yet?

You make a fair point. Smith has made a big impact at several clubs in SL and in each case has improved playing style and individual players.

If the Hall of Fame is purely about the winning of silverware then perhaps Bluey should be in. However, as I have previously stated, he inherited a champion quality side yet, IMO, presided over a decline in general playing standards with no improvement in our poor discipline. So you could argue that the players won the silverware despite the coach. And if this were the case then why would he deserve to be in the H of F?

Looks like they are getting there...

Bluey was the right person at the right time. Perhaps they won regular season games despite him but I have no doubt he played a very big part in the winning of the two titles under him - and the victory at Wigan in the 2010 playoffs which set up the potential for a third.

The 2010 cup final however was when his approach stopped paying dividends - being crap all year and not winning anything is somewhat less acceptable than being crap all year and coming up trumps at the end.

If we were to compare coaches to players, if Bluey was something of a Kevin Iro then Smith was a Kevin Sinfield.

Its not like Tony Smith inherited a bad team!! We finished 2nd in the League and reached the CCF the season before he took over. We may not have been a 'champion' side before Smith took over but with the talented youngsters we had it was almost inevitable we were going to win something soon.

Turning a club of losers into a club of winners is not the simple task some would have you believed. Leeds had been "inevitable" winners of something for a long time before it became fact.

I think it's a fair argument that at Leeds Tony Smith inherited a squad that was on the cusp of something special and that Daryl Powell does deserve credit for overhauling a squad that was largely based on ageing big names, to one that was young and hungry. Powell has had some success subsequently that proves he is a good coach.

However if there were any doubts of Smith's ability to turn a squad from underachievers to achievers then look at his record at Warrington - we were crap when he took over from Jimmy Lowes, Smith turned us not only into contenders but trophy winners from the word go, he was to us what Graham Murray was to Leeds from 1998, except he won another Challenge Cup and got us to the top of the league.

Which parameters have you used to assess poor discipline?

Using the nett figure of penalties received - penalties conceded: the negative peak when looking at the past 7 seasons was reached in Leeds' back-to-back-to-back winning season of 2009

It then improved (while still remaining in negative territory) in McClennan's final season in charge when Leeds went trophyless.

Thankfully last season the nett negative count was again on the increase as Leeds returned to the winner's circle.

Are we then to conclude that discipline has declined since Coach McDermott took charge?

mcclennan should be in the hall of fame without a doubt,i don't care what propagand is insinuated rightly or wrongly,his record will simply do for me thanks

Your assessment is simplistic. The number of penalities is not the only way to make a judgement on discipline. Another way is to take into account the sort of penalties given away and at what time in a game or in what field position. A penalty given say for offside in a game where the ref has been letting it go all game IMO is not as bad as say having already given away a penalty then conceding another 10 metres for back chat. IMO under Bluey we did too much of the latter which in many instances led to points against us and perhaps leading to some refs not giving us the benefit of the doubt. This sort of thing was part of an overall decline in entertainment value with a lot of boring one up rugby. Evidence of poor coaching I would suggest.

It is the increase in this sort of poor discipline I am talking about which you obviously hadn't spotted but many others had and led to Leeds gaining a bit of a reputation for always complaining and not accepting decisions against us (Whinos).

You seem to link poor discipline with success. Are you suggesting we try to give away more penalties?

Then the very same could be said of Mcdermott as Head coach someone who you backed to the hilt and had the pleasure of "i told you so" post GF and Wembley.
Lets not forget how dire we were in many games last year and how at times our discipline was disgraceful for pro players of that experience.
You can't have it both ways and the facts remain we were a success under Mclennon and he achieved things NO OTHER COACH had/has achieved in the SL era so it's a "no brainer" he should be in the hall of fame as should Brian Mc when he eventually leaves.

I beg to differ rhinoms. It was the team that achieved things no other team has achieved in the SL era and Bluey deserves credit for his part in that. However in assessing his part in that success you have to take into consideration that he took over the Champion side. But the fact remains that our playing standards declined under his stewardship which is my point. So to include him in the H of F would have to be based solely on the team winning silverware rather than him being a good coach and improving playing standards and individual skills.

Your comparison with BMcD is not a fair one. He did not take over a Champion side - in fact he took over a side in decline that had played badly and with poor discipline for most of the previous season. Add to that the serious long term injuries to key players - plus a host of new injuries early in the season - plus most of the players were 4 years older than when BM first was in charge. So you cannot say the two coaches started with equal resources.

My regular posts backing BMcD were not because I thought everything was ok but were in response to the many hysterical and unfair critics who were calling for his head without taking into consideration the difficult circumstances he had been put in. My much repeated point was 'get off his back and give him a fair chance'. I had been impressed with what I saw of the work he did under Smith and I thought he had something of the Clint Eastwood mean toughness in him that I quite liked.

Our final success in 2011 was again due to the character of this outstanding group of players first and foremost but IMO the part played by BMcD in this success was greater than Blueys was in 2008 and yet he too has "achieved things no other coach has done"

I didn't mean to crow after our Wembley/Playoff/GF performances but there was hardly a one who acknowledged that my stance had been right. So sorry if I rubbed it in too much.

It is too early to make a judgement on BMcD as a coach after just one season. However he has shown great strength of character and dignity through the difficult times, he kept faith in the way he wanted the side to play and improved the side so that they peaked at the right time. His much criticised selections proved inspirational and he brought on the youngsters and improved the performance of others eg Ryan Bailey. So I am very happy so far. Lets see if he can keep the continue with the improvements.

The Hall of Fame should be only for truly oustanding performance otherwise it is meaningless. If it is just about trophies then Bluey should be in, along with the assistant coach Et al.

My assessment of our poor discipline was based on my own observations. Whereas your assessment seems to be based on a concocted formula of "the net figure of penalties received - penalties conceded" The lengths you will go to try and win a point or prove black is white is really weird.



I had stated that Bluey had "presided over a decline in general playing standards with no improvement in our poor discipline" If you do not accept my opinion on this perhaps as you introduced the number of penalties you may like to consider the following two facts that back up my opinion:

1. Under Tony Smith we averaged 157 penalties per season (2004/5/6/7)
Under Brian McClennan we averaged 214 penalties per season (2008/9/10)

That would make an increase of penalties of some 36% - I would say not just a lack of improvement but quite a big decline in discipline under Bluey! Would you agree?

2. Under TS for three out of his four years in charge we gave away the fewest penalties of any team in SL with an average position of 11.25/12.

Under Bluey we moved up the penalty charts to 4th out of 14 teams in 2009 and 6th out of 14 in 2010 with an average position of 6th/14 for penalties given away.

So this again rather underlines the decline in discipline under coach Brain McClennan. But then you knew that all the time didn't you?



With regard to Brian McD, so far he has not managed to alter the Bluey decline in discipline but like I said last year give him time but as BMcD was not the issue it is irrelevant anyway.

JC. Bluey also had many injuries to contend with and a team that at times lost confidence he too blooded youngsters and the game against Cas after the England V France match proved as such.
He also had a an ageing team and players going off the boil and also had to adopt a different style of RL that still brought success.
Bluey had nowhere to go except down when he took over yet he kept us at the top for another 2 yrs and that deserves recognition.
Also Brian Mc did have a squad of very good players who played a lot of awful ,unstructered and ill disciplined RL at times last year but along with the team he did manage to turn it around you are far too easy in your support for Brian Mc whilst showing very little for a back to back Championship winning coach who also tasted success at international level.

I wonder how much weight should be given to the notably public comments of senior Leeds players regarding McClennan's abilities?