Exactly. Clearly Sal Paradise begs to disagree
Furthermore, re Bird & Monaghan, excellent players though they may be, I'm still happy that we chose not to offer either of them the chance to play in the UK. GH believes that personal qualities are important in individuals - more important than other characteristics - & I endorse that view.
Others may prefer a win at all costs approach.
Let them support Wigan, Warrington or even the Dragons, I'll stick with the Rhinos & the ethos they propound.

Carney has an alcohol problem that doesn't make him the devil in-carnet. He is a young man with a stack of money and zero life experience, very immature - moving to a different environment will hopeful help the obvious social issues he has.

I am not advocating that Leeds sign him nor did I advocate that Leeds sign either Monoghan or Bird. The latter are tangible examples of what can happen when you give individuals an opportunity to redeem themselves.

Catalan signing Carney will have a negative impact on Leeds but I still think it would be a benefit to the competition as a whole if he joins the Catalans. This competition desperate needs some quality and quick, yes it would be great to have Greg Inglis or Jonathan Thurston in SL but we know that is not going to happen - picking up the likes of Carney is the best we will be able to do in attracting top class NRL players.

For me its the quality of the competition that is important not whether Leeds win or not - I want to see elite players playing to elite standards not the sad parody that we have seen from Leeds for the past 3/4 seasons. If that means giving a high quality player a chance I am all for that.

Sal Paradise do you condone drink driving?
Do you also condone repeat drink driving offenses?

Once is surely a mistake but to do the self same thing over again is reckless and clearly shows a total disregard to peoples safety is it not?

You are clearly speaking as a person that hasn't been affected by how alcohol and it's misuse whilst driving a motor vehicle can affect a family judging by your blase attitude to his indiscretions

A friend of mine lost their 16 year old daughter due to her being run over by a drunk driver whilst she was merely walking down a path beside a main road on her way home one night

Would you have this same attitude regarding his alcohol problems had it been one of your kids?

My best mate was killed by a drink driver when we were 18. I am very anti drinking and driving. I would however love to see Carney in a Leeds shirt, or at least in our competition. These incidents need to be seperated from his job.

As usual, some huge kneejerks from the usual suspects.

Throughout all of last season we lost two games by more than one score - Warrington & Wigan away. Games we (honestly) weren't banking on winning.

We finished 7 points shy of the LLS. To be clear, we could have made that up with:

-playing full teams v Bradford & London (4 points)
-not having Moon wrongly sent off at home v Saints (2 points)
-putting a shift in v Hull (2 points)

The latter is particularly pertinent - a game we went full strength for when we could gain nothing from it with a playoff match the next week. Had we been in with a shout at the LLS I'm sure we would have dragged out the performance. Had we rested players after two big games we might well have seen as less fatigued performance against Catalans.

*Also fwiw winning the London & Bradford games would have put us in 4th, winning Hull on top of that would have delivered us the LLS ahead of Saints on points difference.

I disagree and the NRL also feel the same way too gladly
How many chances does someone need in order to get their life in order?
Carney is a very talented player without a doubt and he was in such a privileged position too as he was earning big money in the lucrative NRL competition,But he clearly decided to throw it all away?

The fact that he is banned over there and that he could only sign for the Catalan Dragons in order to to keep playing the game he loves was sadly his get out of jail card and his only option, Or do you think he would have gone there anyway if he hadn't been banned from the NRL?

TL;DR I think we have enough in the bag to get in to top 4 next year.

Compared to the current 5 teams above us we're hardly a million miles away. All their rotation teams were equally as poor as ours this year.

Wire, Saints and Cas are replacing departing players with the similar style players(apart from Scott Moore for Clark). Wigan might replace Green or just go with youth. Huddersfield improving with Huby if he stays injury free. Below us Cats not replacing all that are going, but they still need to get consistency not sure if Carney will bring that. Widnes, Hull Kr and Wildcats have replaced outgoing players with similar/better. Hull FC better squad, but need a new coach. Salford still a bit of an unknown for me with the pressure on them, still think they need a good Hooker.

1st team for me next year:

1, Hardaker
2, Briscoe
3, Watkins
4, Moon
5, Hall
6, Sinfield
7, McGuire
8, Cuthbertson
9, Aiton (if not banned)
10, Peacock
11, Ablett
12, Delaney
13, Sutcliffe

14, Burrow
15/16, Leuluai/Singleton/Baldwinson/Yates
17, Achurch/JJB/S.Ward/Foster/Walters


I think we still have one last hurrah left in us for next year and just enough injection of returning youth. 2016 would be a struggle though. Technically we have 3 players coming in that can cover prop Cutherberston, Yates and Baldwinson. I didn't see Baldwinson play for Bradford, but what i saw of him in the academy and his brief appearance before his leaving was announced he looked good.

Singleton has to get in over Kirke and Bailey, which i think is down to him at the end of the day. At times he loses his concentration, which results in him losing his man or dropping the ball at key times. He's young so i think those things will improve over time. In the backs i think Luke Briscoe should get another year. Thought he went well in his appearances and offered a bit more at hooker than Robbie Ward. Tom Briscoe and Watkins have an pre-season to bond more, which seemed hampered by BJB still being around.

A lot rides on Mcdermott's rotation and tactics. If he stops the 3 man subs it'll be a start

.

Sutcliffe won't start at loose forward next season. McDermott prefers more bulk in the back row and another ball-carrier in there. Best he can hope for is another season off the bench unless two of Sinfield/Burrow/McGuire are out at the same time.

I definitely don't condone drink driving. I would feel most comfortable if Todd Carney was not allowed behind the wheel of a car again until he can satisfy the relevant people that his alcohol problem is under control.

I do not, however, think that a conviction for drink driving (in which, fortunately no real harm was done) should preclude somebody from working again in their chosen career, unless that career involves driving.

I take all that on board. However, another perspective is that we repeatedly failed to score enough points to close out games. By the by, how many games did we draw or win by the odd score? If you take those into account too there were fairly obvious shortcomings (at least in my opinion).

I think that in our bad run the games were in a position where Leeds of old would have ground out victory (Wigan away apart). We were up going into the last quarter in all of them, and ended up with nothing in them all

Catalans 2015 squad already boasts 2 key improvements with Todd Carney and the return of Casty.

Imagine if we threw a world class stand off and prop into the mix....

And the full return of Scott Dureau also. Had it not been for the lucky win we got against them at home, they would have finished above us last season. Yet they have improved themselves.

Think Dureau is expected to go back to Sydney?

With Tonga and Carney signing and Casty back they're quite a bit better than this year on paper, but wonder if David Waite leaving their coaching staff will have a negative effect.

Hard to argue with that. Just heard that Micheal Phelps has been caught drink driving - not his first time either. It might hurt his sponsorship and endorsments but I can't imagine him being banned from swimming.

So long as Phelps doesn't 'drink and dive' it will affect endorsements, etc more than being allowed to swim, as you say.

Now that's a sport I'd watch.

Quote ="DHM"Hard to argue with that. Just heard that Micheal Phelps has been caught drink driving - not his first time either. It might hurt his sponsorship and endorsments but I can't imagine him being banned from swimming.'" Eek www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/swimming/29515422

Quote ="DHM"Hard to argue with that. Just heard that Micheal Phelps has been caught drink driving - not his first time either. It might hurt his sponsorship and endorsments but I can't imagine him being banned from swimming.'" Eek www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/swimming/29515422

Waite is an excellent coach his experience will be missed, hopefully the Frenchman will get an assistant who will help with his progression.

He does appear to be a talented coach and does seem to encourage an expansive style of play.

I am not condoning drink driving in any shape or form - what I am suggesting is we give him a chance to move his life forward.

Are you suggesting that everyone who gets banned for drink driving should be immediately barred from working?

Interesting stance from the NRL they will allow illegal drug cheats/wife beaters/gambling addicts to play in their competition but someone with a problem with a legal drug gets banned!!

Its is obvious Carney would stay in the NRL if he could get a job, sadly he cannot so like Bird and Monaghan he is plying his trade in an environment that will allow it. Good luck to him, we have all made numerous mistakes in our life thankfully the majority of us are able to pursue our work careers unhindered

Brilliant! Link to the civic reception at the council yesterday for YCCC and the Rhinos. B Mc with his arms folded and Kirke lurking around in the background are highlights, as is the resident kit model - JJB. Incidentally, I did not go to it in the end despite collecting my free ticket. The ticket stated it was 'lounge suit / day dress' code and I had no idea what this actually means or equates to. Suffice to say, as I'd have gone straight from work, I assumed it meant my usual attire of t-shirt / jumper, jeans and converse shoes was not sufficiently of 'lounge suit / day dress' standards. Link: 2.bp.blogspot.com/-PnQQ--6dF7M/V ... 2Bshot.jpg

Brilliant! Link to the civic reception at the council yesterday for YCCC and the Rhinos. B Mc with his arms folded and Kirke lurking around in the background are highlights, as is the resident kit model - JJB. Incidentally, I did not go to it in the end despite collecting my free ticket. The ticket stated it was 'lounge suit / day dress' code and I had no idea what this actually means or equates to. Suffice to say, as I'd have gone straight from work, I assumed it meant my usual attire of t-shirt / jumper, jeans and converse shoes was not sufficiently of 'lounge suit / day dress' standards. Link: 2.bp.blogspot.com/-PnQQ--6dF7M/V ... 2Bshot.jpg

Quote ="The Eagle"Eek www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/swimming/29515422'" 84 in a 45 zone. Drink driving. Scummy act.

Quote ="The Eagle"Eek www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/swimming/29515422'" 84 in a 45 zone. Drink driving. Scummy act.

Quote ="The Eagle"Eek www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/swimming/29515422'" Wow! Yesterday the word from the Executive Director of US swimming was that no action would be taken. Some external pressure maybe from sponsors? I read his autobiography, it's fascinating but in some ways I found it quite depressing, almost sad.

Quote ="The Eagle"Eek www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/swimming/29515422'" Wow! Yesterday the word from the Executive Director of US swimming was that no action would be taken. Some external pressure maybe from sponsors? I read his autobiography, it's fascinating but in some ways I found it quite depressing, almost sad.

Quote ="FlexWheeler"84 in a 45 zone. Drink driving. Scummy act.'" Glad you edited that from the original - but agree it's dangerous and unnaceptable. However, he has probably saved more lives than most people, he has worked extensively for many years to get kids to learn to swim in the US particularly in the black community where a massive proportion compared to whites never learn. www.michaelphelpsfoundation.org/index.php

Quote ="FlexWheeler"84 in a 45 zone. Drink driving. Scummy act.'" Glad you edited that from the original - but agree it's dangerous and unnaceptable. However, he has probably saved more lives than most people, he has worked extensively for many years to get kids to learn to swim in the US particularly in the black community where a massive proportion compared to whites never learn. www.michaelphelpsfoundation.org/index.php