I love this forum.

Pointing out a run of poor performances and results, and giving an opinion on some of the reasons behind it that need to be addressed is "doom mongering".

All hail the opinions of the eternal optimist forum overlords.

Like I pointed out, whilst Kirke wasn't liked by fans and most didn't want him the 17....the coach did want him in his 17 and picked him there most weeks. Do you honestly think McDermott would rather have Yates or Kirke right now? Not what you think of Kirke, what the coach thought of Kirke?

Again if Bailey's discipline was the reason for his departure and was lined up for several months, why only do it post season without a guaranteed forward lined-up to replace him? Again why was he picked and played many minutes in the cup wins and given the nod to start the league games after if they'd decided to wash their hands of him? Why not announce it would be his final season before the end of the season and let him have the "his final game at Headingley" moment like most departing players get with the final league game of the season when they do their little stay behind on the pitch to thank fans?

When was the last time we saw a few players announced as departing AFTER the season ended? 2010 when the likes of Diskin and Donald left and McClennen decided not to stay and that because a shake-up was needed because of our 4th place finish and hammering in the cup final.

Does anybody truely believe if we'd have gone on to complete a GF/CC double last year with the likes of Bailey and Kirke on the bench that GH isn't running around Leeds telling everybody he was right and this is THE greatest Leeds squad ever for doing the double? Do you honestly think two weeks later he's showing them two the door given his reputation for loyalty to those that have been part of the success here?

It was completely reactionary to the playoff defeat. He said mid-2012 when we were struggling that he might get rid of some players at the end of the season.....low and behold we win the GF again and nobody leaves.

GH will have know it was going to be a tough sell to sell season tickets this year with the same squad with only Cuthbertson added to it. Given how late it was and all players are pretty much signed up for 2015 by the time of the playoffs it meant he really couldn't sign anybody. His only other option was to release some of those guys people have wanted rid of for a while now and make promises in the pre-season about the young guys stepping up into those spots which again fans have been calling for for a while now.

Problem is he has a coach who isn't keen on playing young forwards. So why would you get rid of two guys he did pick and give minutes to and leave him with guys he won't feel comfortable putting on the park? Like I said before, who do you reckon McDermott would've preferred on the bench on Thursday? Bailey & Kirke or Yates and Walters? Think it's obvious it'd be the former, so it certainly wasn't departures with the coach in mind.

It's funny how no one has named anybody in particular as a "doom monger" yet certain posters rush forward in aggreevance of the term being banded about, especially when they've happily thrown around terms like rose-tinted and hero-worshipers for people who have a different view to them.

I get tired of telling Printer this, but whether he wants to clutch at his straws or not, McDermott wanted Bailey out of the club at Easter last year. He was Forced, yes Forced, by the CEO to let Bailey see out his testimonial year.

That is quite a common known fact, that people at the club are not shy of talking about

Whether is Printer is correct on Kirke is open to debate, but I am pretty certain it had to do with security on his contract.

That begs the question why did McDermott keep selecting him - logically it doesn't make any sense. If his behaviour was poor then selecting him sends out the wrong message especially to the younger players?

Regardless of that point I personally don't believe both were despatched to please fan sentiment. Maybe it was a coincidence but they both went at the same time that it looked like Mossop was coming. Leeds will have a budget for spend on players and to accommodate Mossop something had to give and Bailey and Kirke were it. McDermott's fascination with Kirke was also waning he was getting less minutes as the season went on. Luckily for GH Mossop didn't sign and he shifted Bailey and Kirke off the payroll.

Please note salary budget and salary cap are not the same thing - I think Leeds will be at least £300k under the cap.

The site is polarised that is how it is - that it is why it is so active. Long may it continue, god forbid it could ever end up like the sin bin where anyone who doesn't have a left wing leaning has given up dealing with the bias of the mods and their mates.

Printer-IF GH listened to fans about getting rid of players Senior wouldn't have lasted 3 games ,Hay & Mathiou would have had years knocked off their respective stints with us and a certain Scott Donald would have vanished after 06 we could go through virtually every squad during GH's tenure and find players who would have been dispatched had he listened to fans.
How we dispatched the 2 players you mention can be debated until the end of time fan pressure wasn't even near to being one of them.
In terms of recruitment we tried and failed to sign Huby and Mossop not rumour or hear say it's a fact.

It does beg the question. He had Singleton available to pick ahead of Bailey but didn't and the argument being made this year for Sinfield not always playing is planning for next year without him. He may have been 'forced' to keep Bailey according to Gotcha, doesn't mean he has to make the 17, or that he couldn't make him sit on the bench for 75 mins or more like he has done with other forwards. Cross, Burgess, Griffin, all props who were shown the door mid-season without hesitation when the coach/player relationship had broken down.



And GH is a shrewd guy, you don't sell both until you are sure Mossop has signed on the dotted line if the reason was to create space.

How many seasons ended with such a negative feel towards during GH's spell as the 2014 season ended though? And it was a feeling that had bubbling away for 4/5 years but GF wins or getting close made things different. It was probably the most displeasure at how a season has gone for many a year at Headingley.




Like I said before, if we added to the CC with the GF last year do you honestly think he gets rid or lauds them as our best ever squad/season? So to say it wasn't anyway even close to reactionary to the displeasure felt at how the season ended isn't something I agree with when you think about it.

Remember he threathened to move players on mid-2012 when fans were fuming at the 50-8 hammering Wigan gave us at Headingley but didn't sell anybody when it all turned out rosy. If it had turned out rosy again in 2014 it's hard to see him changing that approach quite frankly.

Printer do you seriously think letting Bailey and Kirke go would impact the sales of season tickets one iota - seriously? What drives season ticket sales is optimism, new signings and the potential to win the GF. Letting Kirke and Bailey go would not impact that.

On Mossop GH needed to create the space and the opportunity for Mossop to be interested. No way Mossop would have signed if he had been 5/6 prop choice. Getting rid of two players competing for his position should have encouraged Mossop to join.

Not a huge difference no but people were (still are) fed up of seeing the same old faces in the squad. It wasn't a huge thing but it was all he could do by that point after the season had ended and promised and harped on about "bringing through our youth" instead or looking outside the club to recruit.



Yes and he could've had those sales set up ready to go and informed Mossop that certain players were departing. Didn't actually have to confirm the sales before Mossop was a done deal.

Well that didn't turn out too badly since I guess we signed Cuthbertson instead.

I remember many seasons which ended with negative feeling akin to that of last year and I remember it being reflected on here, particularly those seasons between 1999 and 2004 and 2004 and 2007. And of course GF and CC wins engender a more positive feeling about the club amongst most fans. Winning stuff is after all the primary goal of all professional sport




Is your premise that GH wants to hang onto players purely out of sentiment and loyalty? I reckon that GH is a shrewd businessman first and foremost. He balances player ability against squad need and cost and tries to get the best bang for buck. I also think the for sound financial reasons he prefers to bring players through from the academy. In short I think there is a sound business plan for a long term successful future on and of the field. Looking at our trophy cabinet I think it's working as well as any in SL and better than most.




So we weren't doing well, we got hammered at home and GH let it be known that if changes were needed in personnel to get an improvement, then there would be changes. Subsequently we won the GF. Sounds like an effective motivational tool to me.

I guess we all want improvement and would like to be in the GF every year, but life ain't like that and it isn't always good to get what you want. I'm sure my enthusiasm for the Rhinos would not endure if we were nailed on for everything every year. I hate it when we lose as much as anyone, especially at home but I know we don't have a perfect squad nor are we ever likely to have.

We had already signed Cuthbertson.

Dated January 2015


=#FF0000Ian Kirke is still in the dark over the reasons for his sudden departure from Leeds Rhinos but insists he holds no grudges against his old club as he prepares to kick-start his career with Wakefield Trinity Wildcats.

The 34-year-old ex-York City Knights prop forward was looking forward to starting his 10th season with the Rhinos =#FF0000when he was told in November that his chances of regular football in 2015 were going to be limited.

It left him with little time to find a new club but the Wildcats offered him a 12-month deal and he followed a well-trodden path from Headingley to Belle Vue.

=#FF0000"I had a conversation in the middle of last season when I was definitely staying for this year but at the end of the year that changed," Kirke said. "I'm not too sure why.

"I think it's because they're bringing on the younger players. They've got to look to the future. I've got no bitter feelings towards them, other than perhaps it wasn't ideal timing for me because most clubs were settled by the time I got to find out.

"As it happens, Wakefield is good for me. I don't have to uproot myself and I know a few of the guys here."

Back rower Chris Clarkson had been given the same message a few months earlier and front rower Ryan Bailey was similarly told he was not part of Leeds coach Brian McDermott's plans for 2015.

They moved on to Widnes Vikings and Hull KR respectively, Clarkson on a season-long loan, and Kirke anticipated an influx of new blood to replenish the Rhinos' pack.

However, Leeds' only close-season signing has been Australian prop Adam Cuthbertson, which has surprised Kirke.

"If it had been my choice, I would have stayed there until the bitter end but they said I would have limited opportunities so it was time to move on," he added.

=#FF0000"Me and Bails (Bailey) got told at the same time. I was a little bit surprised. I assumed they would be signing some other people. That has not happened yet but (chief executive) Gary (Hetherington) has probably got something in his back pocket."

That last line is rubbish. Kirke may not be on the same wave length as the rest of the game, but Bailey had agreed verbally with Cadtleford for thus year. Only the desperation of Hull KR and the money on offer changed that route. Funny how he the ends up realising a mistake, and just around the corner is a Castleford deal.

Sometimes what happens in the game isn't a secret. Also you get a lot of media interviews that are just meaningless words of nothing, to dill paper space. Well done Printer on finding one of those many Interviews. Third hand information is not the best route to use on a debate, you know that very well.

Hahahahaha you're honestly going with Kirke must not be as in-the-know of what was happening at the club as you were.

Considering your claim that so many people knew it's a ridiculous stretch to think a member of the playing staff for almost 10 years didn't know a thing about it. He isn't the only player to express surprise at the departures.

Perhaps your source was wrong, you ever considered that? It was at the same time around Easter your sources told you that the Daryl Clark to Warrington done deal had performed a u-turn and he was now going to head to Leeds for 2015 after a financial deal was agreed with Wire.

How did that one from your source work out?

What I said was that the Interview was rubbish. I doubt that Kirke didn't know. The comment about his wavelength was a tongue in cheek comment.

Funny how it all came exactly as stated last year, bit coincidental. And when I was saying throughout last season, I actually said he was going to Cas, because he was. Funny how that turned out.

As for Clark, give your head a shake. I said that Warrington were looking to pull out of the deal. I further said that Leeds had spoke to Cas about the possibility. I never said anything close to him heading to Leeds.

Like I said some things are not secret. Newspaper space needs filling. Don't believe everything you read in papers, or don't hear on radios.

So Kirke did know all along that Bailey was leaving from Easter onwards but has just randomly decided to make up a completely different version of events for no logical reason.

Considering you said Bailey to Cas from around Easter last year and they'd "verbally agreed" a deal......he didn't sign for HKR until 31st October. That's 6 weeks AFTER Leeds' season had ended and over 6 months since the Easter period.

That's one long ar*ed "verbal agreement". Again in what logical world of reasoning does it take them 6 months and plus several weeks after a season ends to get a contract drawn up and signed. What were they waiting for? To sign it on Xmas day?

Even this year when he left HKR it was another 4 weeks before Cas signed him.

Well at the end of the day, I am right Printer, and you are wrong. So it just moves on.

It doesn't mean you're right it just means you always believe any story or version of events you hear from the Hardaker family.

You'd previously pointed out Bailey's bad behaviour as something Hardaker wasn't happy about when punished for what you claimed was just being out drinking during the World Cup, so no surprise that the story which doesn't add up about Bailey being told he was off came from their spokesperson.

Like I said, their's always two versions of events and clearly the Hardaker clan never told you the reason he was fined so much for the World Cup drinking incident is that he was out with a Yorkshire Carnegie player and threw a punch at him. That's why he was fined so much and why he 'chose' to leave the England squad (under club orders) and it wasn't England kicking him out because the fighting part was kept in house at Leeds.

I know from my friend who's in the squad and has been for some time that there were a few in the squad getting sick of Bailey and his attitude. Only told me after Bailey had left and didn't ask further questions. Don't know mcdermotts thoughts on him and have no idea the reason Bailey went. If I was guessing I wouldn't put fans pressure at the top of the list.

What's everyone's thoughts regarding Mossop at the time I wasn't too bothered that we didn't sign him, was hoping that as we didn't waste cap space on him we would be getting a top notch prop for next year.
Having granted only seen him play a few times I have been fairly impressed with him. And as I cannot see us getting a big signing prop next year, seems a missed opportunity

might be their knee jerking after the Saints loss, but the Wigan fans on their board seem to be saying he's basically been anonymous

Complete & utter waste of cap. I have never seen him do anything in defence or attack to justify his rep.

13116 posts of rubbish