Thanks Matt.

Nicely, I hope you’re wrong about the coaching but I didn’t see much cohesion or shape again today. Skill level wasn’t great although you can see Cassell has good hands.

If Oladipupo is a first year he’s a bit of a beast.

Yeah Oladipupo is a first year Jim

I hope im wrong aswel, if there is even a wrong or right, its just my opinion really, but its a long standing opinion based on progression of players that far too often get overtook and left behind by their peers once they reach Academy level.

It’s hard to look at sides like Cas outperforming us at this level when we pretty much have pick of the crop regionally and have dedicated coaches and S&C for the juniors with all our facilities.

Then again one year development at 16-18 makes a huge difference. We struggled physically against Cas, who had a couple of lads close to open age size.

First time I’ve seen a few of those boys live. Considering most aren’t going to be near first team for another 2-3 years there is some potential there. Liked Cassell - he does have a bit of everything doesn’t he? Also he has a bit of aggression which all the top forwards have.

Whats the answer then matt? i see it like you i try and go watch the scholarship and academy as much as possible,night and day when it comes to how both sides play and how players develop, saw ur earlier post about wanting butteril to coach the academy and im of that ilk too ,it's no fluke that the bloke gets the best out the kids in the scholarship and he was chevs assistant when they won the academy grand final a few years back,do we know if he wants to do it? im guessing not as its as clear as to everyone who watches the games within our lower levels that he's the bloke to lead this talented group moving forward unless he doesnt want to do it? players and parents speak highly of him on the hill at stanningley so somethings going on? its baffled me for years this subject and we have talked about it for years now.the lad cannot want it simple as that.

How much of this is coaching, and how much of losing games like these is down to them picking a young side so that they’re challenged more?

100% both jim but last year the group didn't even make the playoffs and i'm fully aware of the argument it's not about placings etc but a club the size of leeds with the talent it recruits should be successful at all levels and making playoffs as a minimum, 5 sides were better than our academy last year?where were older eligible players yesterday? not playing because they haven't been developed and the club must see the younger kids as being better? i agree with matt this is the most talented group the club has had for years,if they are not showing signs at end of the year and early next it's clearly the coaching and those in charge of the development at those levels, hide behind age all we want we should not be outplayed by castleford at home at that level?

Out played at home might be a bit of an exaggeration tbh, a team with 11 first years lost on what was essentially goalkicking.
I feel like the difference in physicality was obvious on how many times we were held up over their line, and how easily they were able to force themselves over on our line with players on them.
Definitely not the best performance but I think there were some promising signs from some individuals, but Mccormack could do with some more support/strike from the other half and fb I think

Granted but we have been before in regards to last season & this group is a lot stronger across the board they wont be judged on the first two games or even the first 10 but if theres no signs of development like last year then questions need to be asked, dress it up how you like if a club like leeds rhinos who gets its lions share of the best players doesnt get in the top 5 somethings not right. Time will tell though.

Cas obviously have a decent enough crop at this level. They turned Wigan over a couple of weeks ago too. Very obviously Leeds are leading with a young side in the academy, and preferring reserves for the second years.

I guess the concept is that this challenges higher quality youngsters more, I can get that on one level.

On the other hand though it makes it more likely the teams will lose games, which I’m not sure is ideal. It also could increase risk of injury playing lads older and stronger (or men with reserves). It also accelerates the gifted players through where maybe sometimes it would be better for them to hold back and learn and train for longer before “making it”.

Dunno, pros and cons of any approach.

Second part is incorrect, there are no second years playing for the reserves and missing Academy, they arnt good enough, the best 2 second years are McCormack and Corbett and they play for both

The doom and gloom continues. We only beat Cas by 24 points last night!!

That was Scholarship, which always recieves the praise it deserves

You should probably read the thread before posting

Extremely poor, error filled, performance from the reserves today in defeat to Warrington

Edgell and Littlewood played pretty well, as did Aliyu, Warren, Robinson, Smart, Campbell. Lumb had some errors but once he strengthens up he is tall and fast and evasive.

Boys against men at times but just like first grade, slack errors and penalties killed us.

Error after Error, dumb play after dumb play and penalty after penalty, very much like the first team, that is the story of our reserves and Academys season to date during their combined 1 win with 4 defeats.

But ’we'l learn from that' and 'we'l take plenty of positives away'

Problem is, they seem to take too many positives and not enough learning.

Another coach named Smith who should be firmly on the hot seat

Rohan smith, grix, walker and T Smith just inspire zero confidence as a coaching team it just all looks amateur.

Clubs usually have structures plays and calls that are consistent throughout the age groups and various teams, I shudder to imagine what that looks like for Leeds.

I thought Jack Sinfield looked more robust than last season, he has worked on his physicality.

Generally Wira looked physically more mature - but again when you’re playing opposition like that, you have to out-skill them and we failed to.

The ref allowed Warrington to lie on at the ruck to a ridiculous level too, it was embarrassing.

How are the games looking under the new rules?

I couldn’t see much evidence they’ve been applied mate. Night and day from last year, common sense may just have prevailed.

I was more bothered about the ref allowing Wire to lay on literally 5 seconds per ruck at times.

I heard a quote from someone in the media that so far in SL the number of tackles making contact with the head has gone from around 12% to 3%, albeit a small sample size so far. So perhaps they're being lenient in the reserves because the adjustments made to the rules in SL is already having the desired effect on reducing contact with the head.

I agree on the play the ball. I'd like to see if the PTB speed has increased, because it still looks a mess and is policed inconsistently

It’s great that head contacts have been reduced, the interpretation has eased now and let’s hope we’re about where we need to be.

Bentley’s concussion issue was making a tackle though; this is not uncommon.

We have to make a hard job easier for refs and keep the rules as effective but simple as possible. Honestly I’d be blowing the pea out for some of the crappy spoiling tactics in the ruck. Sometimes I feel Leeds players could be better at finding their fronts but some of that is physical.

U18s well beaten by Wigan tonight. Presumably we'll hear we fielded a very young team and it will be invaluable for their development. May well be true. GH keeps repeating we currently have the best crop of youngsters for 20 years. I get to as many Academy and Scholarship games as I can and I'm struggling to see the same thing. I see us beaten regularly by the Wigan and Saints of this world which doesn't fill me with any confidence we'll be closing the gap any time soon. Would be very happy to be proved wrong though.

Ive watched a lot of these first years youngsters through the junior game. Im not gunna mention no names. It seems to me that they are giving the ones who are on the biggest contracts all the game time. They are obviously not performing. There are players who i think who are not getting picked i think should be picked who are better than the ones who are. Players who are picked not getting enough time on the field. Surely this is still a results business, even at this age. Time for the axe for a few for a while maybe ?

The only first year not playing regular who deserves to be is Dylan Hutchinson, but he's got Fergus McCormack in front of him so thats undersandable at 6, i personaly think Hutchinson is a better player and fullback than Diskin, so i would play him there...The club seem to love Diskin however.

Other than that, all the best first years are getting plenty of game time.

Unfortunately, our coaching and development at this level just isnt good enough, all other clubs players become tougher and more intelligent rugby players when they move from Scholarship to Academy, ours go the opposite way. Its not good enough and the club need to stop treating the appointments at Academy level as an afterthought and start looking for best in class for that level