There not facts though Mark, not if you are putting all that on Sinfield which you are. You are stating facts over a longer period, and tarring him with the same brush. Only Hetherington should be criticised on that score.

Sinfield has made some mistakes, none more so than over the coach, but he isn’t a magician, and things were not going to change just like that. The bigger issues are ones we are dealing with, which we were burdened with before Sinfield involvement. To be fair in terms of recruitment anyone would have thought the two marquee lads were first class. Signing Donaldson and Albert maybe not so, but they were more squad fillers which everyone needs, and in Albert case a gamble out of desperation, because of the injuries.

The Furner appointment could quite easily have turned out to be a master stroke. It wouldn’t have changed those historical facts you mention, but it would certainly have changed peoples current views.

I am not saying Sinfield will succeed, but I am certainly saying he deserves more time than currently had before such threads. When tied with salary cap, correcting others past errors doesn’t magically get sorted overnight.

hetherington took over around 96 and it took 8 years to turn it around. sinfield has had around 8 months.

Gotcha if you read my post GH is clearly mentioned and is just as much if not more to blame.
Also it was Sinfield who retained Jjb and Ablett that's self inflicted and adding to the problems we see now.
Yes no one doubts he couldn't do it "overnight" but the brutal honesty is thus far the job has proven way too big for him imo.

GH Took over the whole club operation with zero foundations to build on and btw he has done a magnificent job.
However we have a blueprint that works especially within the RL side of it but it has been ignored both by GH and now KS is here and has zero idea how to turn it around.
If we are questioning GH which is fair to do so imo then KS is a target also.

So what would you like to happen? GH to step down, Sinfield get the sack? Most of the squad sacked?

Lol. Quite ridiculous isn't it

Was it KS decision to sign that tub of lard in the 6 shirt big money long term? Whoever that was had a shocker.

No, we have been through that previously. Deal done previous, then held back announcement.

I think that was GH and done pre Sinfield I know there is a link to BBC where KS talks about signing a 23 year old international etc, but my recollection is we signed him before Sinfield returned.

The players now need lifting for the Cas match their confidence must be shot.

Whilst I agree their confidence must be low, there’s a big part of me thinking “boo frikking hoo”. They got themselves into this mess, molly cuddling them will only prolong the problems. The only thing Agar said that I agree with is that they need to roll their sleeves up and work their way out of it.

Feeling sorry for themselves will only lead to relegation...

give 4 or 5 kids a go. leave the so called big names in the stands

Have you? Sorry for not being present at that meeting.

Fair enough, i knew it was sorted well before Furner arrived but that's it.

I agree. Several of those in blue and amber at the minute look like they don't care and are just happy to pick up the cheque and go through the motions.

KS won't be sacked , you can't keep sacking employees for the sake of it, he is however under tremendous pressure to put right some of the mistakes he has made. This however does not mean he was the right man for the job, what was crying out for someone with lots of experience like a Tony Smith we ended up with an apprentice. While his appointment may have been easier in a successful team, it's been a terrible appointment with this team. We are where we are, so if he is true to his word he has a lot to deliver on a quick learning curve because if we don't improve then the boo boys will be out in force at every game. Leeds people will always give support to a team that try's, but they won't stand to watch a team of lazy buggers who are only interested in picking up their pay cheques

How about we stop re-signing has beens and never wil bes ,stop recruiting fdrom poundland ,employ a Quality Coach and give him free reign to employ his own staff and target his own palyers.
Relaese as much dross as possible and finally make EVERYONE who has contributed to this bag o sh*#* culpable.
Either way it needs sorting and no amount of "it takes time" get behind the team" or pointless sounbites from the Hierachy will improve it.

I'm pretty sure you'll be spending £millions on the rugby side of things and sinfield is your dor. Or are you suggesting he isn't making any decisions?

I’m suggesting he’s not running the multi million pound business that is Leeds Rugby and I’m suggesting that because he isn’t.

Do you think any major decisions especially on spending money won’t have to be agreed by the people actually running the company.

I think people are obviously getting confused as to what his role is.

Kevin is very unlikely to have carte blanche to spend pretty much anything without approval from above.

People blaming sinfield are missing the fact that most of this was broken before he took over.

The club was in the and had missed the boat with the best of the NRL talent available.

Some of the signings had already been made, and in the absence of a number of new faces, what choice did he have than to retain old players who could do a job, albeit a limited one.

I'm not entirely sure who has the final call in signings, but I'd say the signings made by sinny are
merrin - decent but not yet a star
Crosby - did ok last year, AWOL this year.
Albert - cheap uninspiring filler
Donaldson - cheap uninspiring filler
Ava - potential to be decent.

There are some questions signings but options are limited when you miss the primary window for signings and you have a lot of cap tied up in players. It took too long to get rid of garbutt mullally and Walters.

We have to pretty much shift all the off contract players for next year, and try buy a new core.

I don't think sinny has been great but I think his hands have been tied. Next coach appointment and signings will make it break for me

He also retained Ablett & Jjb both well past it.

But he didn’t sign JJB, that offer was made before he came back. It was actually a commitment from Hetherington that he had a playing contract every year, with JJB saying when it was time.

Ablett fair enough. But Eagle missed off Hurrell.

I referred to signing up old players but didn't mention then by name. My feelings are that they were desperation signings as first choice options hadn't come off.

I do wonder with Crosby whether his injury isn't necessarily a physical one, which is why details are not freely available. If so, I don't know whether well see him play for a while.

I couldn't remember when hurrell was signed. Also you can never be sure when someone is signed and when someone is just announced.

Either way, if sinny is being groomed to talk take over long term, I doubt he'd have full reign over the whole rugby side straight away.

For me, GH is to blame for most of this, but I don't buy into him having to go, I think that would be counter productive

I think he needs to swallow his pride and amount to himself he has brought this on himself and fix it. As the man who laid the foundation of our golden decade, he can do it again.

I'm told by a good source that Crosby, while ok when fit, isn't durable enough to be relied on and will spend more time injured than fit. His signing seemed to be a bit desperate.