"the smash them route" is how ZH plays his whole game. I too can understand the logic of selecting a new kicker who you would expect to start most games. None of the other candidates tick this box yet. However I do not believe a SL game is where you learn the technique of how to kick as this should be done on the training field.

Burrow was right to call for taking the 2 points - shame Hardaker isn't good enough. Lilley should have been a starter based on current form and should take the kicks.

It appears Zak has an RLFANS account. Rein that temper in Zak...Stay away from the red.


Last night we had a problem with goal kicking - this is a forum to discuss said topics - deal with it and stfu!

3 Games without Sir Kev last season:

Vs Wigan - 5 Tries - 3 Sutcliffe conversions

Vs Catalan - 7 Tries - 5 Sutcliffe conversions

Vs Cas - 5 Tries - 3 Sutcliffe conversions


Point being - Sutcliffe is the 1st choice kicker and his stats are not that bad given age and time in the role.

That's it you rumbled me! I'm Zak! I started this account when i was 14. 2 years before you started posting.

In 2006 at age 14 I thought I would masquerade as a a staunch Rhinos fan racking up a few thousand posts with the forsight of defending myself when I made it into the first team.

Silly me! I thought I would be defending myself from Wigan and Wire idiots!
Turns out my own fans look very much like they have turned on me first game of the season after been MOS.

Marching on Together ey!

It's entirely possible Zak was kicker elect last night because he outperforms Lilley at the task under practice conditions. Unless someone on here's privy to the club's training and knows different?

Not privy to training, but find it hard to believe with Zak's kicking technique that he could outperform Lilley in a competition.

My thoughts FWIW on Zak's goalkicking is that he's trying to kick it too hard, going for power not accuracy.
I thought last night that we should have gone for touch not for goal.
But the Wolves goal line defence had been so strong all night (that's what won them the game) that the likelihood is we'd have come up short anyway.
We didn't go for goal in the first half when there were a couple of easier chances.

Possible but most unlikely. Zak is not a natural kicker (or passer) Most successful goal kickers have a set routine before taking the kick designed to give them full concentration on the line to the target and a clean contact with the ball. Like good golfers who have a natural swing and keep their head and eyes over the ball they develop a good technique often holding their hands in a way that gets them mentally in the zone. Whereas Hardaker appears just to give it a wack.

Pretty much sums up my take on it. Although the easier chances were spurned while we were throwing a considerable amount at Warrington's tacklers. It wasn't unreasonable at that point to suppose that they'd cave in eventually. Many teams would have.

Sutcliffe looks a better kicker but needs to improve his technique too. But I guess they do not want to risk him so soon after a serious knee injury as place kicking puts undue pressure on both knees.

Unlikely but not impossible. Just seemed to be a lot of folk making the point that Lilley should have been kicking without examining possible reasons as to why he wasn't. I assume there are some.

Sutcliffe's priority is binding back into the team and playing rugby after being out. you can see why kicking duties haven't appeared on his 'to do list' yet this season.

He clearly is - hence he's prone to hooking them left.

Interestingly, when you watch him kick off, his style is so much different to taking a conversion because he kicks through the ball, not at it. He also stands the ball up on the tee differently. I guess there's no pressure when kicking off so his mind set is going to be a little different - and wow, can he wallop it.

As has been mentioned already on here, he's got potential, but it's going to take time and lots and lots and LOTS of practice before he gets it right. Nobody knows his attitude towards these things but I don't know if he's ever going to be dedicated enough to become a master at it (as we know Sinfield was with his kicking).

Point taken but as I'm sure you wouldn't want to mis-lead anyone his Wigan figure above was 2 conversions from 5 attempts - while also landing a 2nd half penalty so 3 from 6 on the night.

Hardaker for Leeds was 1 from 1 in 2012, 15 from 25 (60%) in 2013, 14 from 24 (58%) in 2014 and 9 from 13 (69%) in 2015. Sutcliffe 8 from 14 (57%) in 2014 (including the match winner V Les Catalans from a similar position - albeit opposite end) and 25 from 41 (61%) last year.

Neither option has shown the required consistency to bring confidence thus far, IMO.

Sutcliffe's sequence last season being a case in point:
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Didn't often miss two in a row but the problem was he didn't often kick two in a row either which may be alright for a deputy but is way short of a 1st choice ratio.

For the Wolves goal-kicking has been an issue Gidley may well be the answer.

I just wonder if Zak had kicked the last penalty would he be getting this much stick on here and on various social media platforms?!

Anyone would think Kev didn't miss kicks during games.

We all knew once Kev decided to leave/retire etc this would be the issue for what ever reason the club didn't feel the need to go out and buy a specialised goal kicker and they've stuck and backed one of our own.

The last thing Zak needs is everyone getting on his back after RD1!

Practice...Practice...Practice...that's what's needed.
If it doesn't work out it doesn't work out but the way some people are carrying on you'd think Zak had missed the kick to win the GF.
Give him a break, eh lads?!

People aren't getting on his back just suggesting ways that may help him to improve.
We all want him to do well.

Hardaker doesn't seem to hava a set routine, just steps up and whacks it. The ony way a kicker can consistently get 85%+ and get those high pressure game defining kicks is by having a set routine that they can follow, which allows them to phase out everything around them and focus everything on the technique.

Kicking isn't an afterthought, it's the different between winning trophies and not even making the final. It's an often underrated important aspect that you don't notice until you lose the services of an elite kicker.

A lot of games will be incredibly tight this season and good kicking will make the difference between winning and losing a few of those, and those points could be the difference between finishing 2nd and 5th. It can also change the complexion of games at crucial times, if leeds go 12-6 instead of 10-6, they then get down warrington's end (like they did when they had the chance of a 3rd try) and slot a drop goal over. 2 try cushion, likely game over.

The above is not criticism it is just stating reality. Hardaker is just starting out and last night will serve as a good learning point for him. It will also test his attitude. If he truly wants to be top kicker then it will drive him on to practice harder, never wanting to experience missing a kick like that again. Sometimes you need a bad experience to provide that extra drive. No one ever got good at anything without alot of practice prctice practice.

"Sanctimonious crew" (you know who you are) ...please note it's called constructive criticism and opinions based on what we saw; nothing more. You don't need to rush in and defend your precious idols.

Spot on. A test of Hardakers mentality.

. If only it was so simple. Surely he's been on the blower to your "kicking guru" Mr Alred who can turn him into Sinfield MK2 with simple psychological sessions and hours of practice. I am thinking of doing the same and winning millions of pounds at the World Darts by hours of practice at the same repetitive arm action. Hardaker will never be a top kicker, I hate to say it, but there we go.

We don't truly know what level he is currently at because he hasn't kicked week in week out for an extended period, with all the different types of kicks and game situations for us to get a kick % and fairly judge him. To say he will never be a top kicker is foolish at this stage. If after half the season he's sitting in the late 70's percentage wise, then it's possible he can bring that into the mid 80's over time which would make him a very good kicker.

we all knew this thread was coming once Sinfield retired, thought we may have gone a few games before it happened but here we go.

we were so blessed for the last 15 years having such a high level kicker, and one who you just knew would get the pressure kicks ala the one missed last night at the end. I'm not sure if Hardaker is the answer but he needs time to improve and get experience which you only get kicking on game day.like flex says, if his percentages are in the 70s mid season that will show he has the scope to improve over time and work at getting it to the top level. Looking around at other sides i don't think there are that many great kickers in SL right now.Pat Richards is probably head and shoulders above the rest but nobody else stands out

I would say it's foolish to think that after months, hours and hours of practice , that a naturally gifted kicker could only muster the attempt that Zak made last night with 3 minutes to go. As Zak said himself, "Aww, that's fu**in s**t". If anyone wants a bet that Zak Will be our regular kicker for the next few years then give me a figure and let's get some dough on.

Hell of a lot of short memories or many who don't know just how poor Sinfield was when he first took over the kicking duties missing many as easy and in some games easier than the 2 Zak missed last night.
It took Kev 12/18mths to get as consistent as we all know him to be and just like Sutty last year the knives are out already for Zak after 3 attempts in a proper game!!
It wont happen for anyone with 1 pre-season and a cv as a P/T goal kicker under there belt i said last year Sutty was a GK for the Acadamy but its very different at 1st team level but no he was deemed not good enough now Zak is getting the same.
Fwiw Lilley is also a very good GK just as Sutty was at u19 level but lets not forget at the moment he's finding his feet whilst also getting played out of position.
Whoever kicks will miss at some point it happens but declaring them not good enough after 3 yes 3 real attempts have a word FFS!