Doesn't mean it is the right call just because McDermott made it.

Then don't go, and I didn't say just say nice things. I have been very critical of players over the last 8 years on here (and was critical of Vickery in preseason and last night), but stupid threads like this are pointless, especially when he is being slated down in every other thread that seems to be going on the board. It just seems to be a jump on the band waggon and start your own thread attempt.

Like I said, I was critical of Vickery preseason, but he looked a hell of a lot better than our other options from the 19's that played wing.

Given we have only seen Kleinhorst in SL it is difficult to tell - you cannot judge a player at this level until they have played at this level - some take to it e.g. Clarkson some don't e.g Bush.

It seems to me Vickery has been fast-tracked and given a chance that Chisholm has been denied without any logical justification.

Some fans need ways of letting off steam - just because some do it with a modicum of humour that isn't to your taste doesn't make it wrong - you have a vested interest in the club not being laughed at - at least be honest enough to admit.

Humour?

And who is laughing at the club? We were beaten last night in the kicking department. I thought we matched up elsewhere, especially in the defensive line speed and tackling. Had the Watkins no try been allowed as the TJ thought, who knows how the rest of the game would have gone. As it was, we couldnt hold the ball but they werent much better. Paul Anderson coppied Nathan Brown's tactics from the week before, the difference being they had a kicker who was better than Jon Wilkin.

The only thing that really bothered me about last night is why our players seem to have a mental block when it comes to this ball in wet weather. Granted, it's supposed to be awful in the wet, but it was the same ball for Cas and Hudds.

Also, speaking of young wingers. How good does this Alex Brown look at Hull KR?

Some horrible folk on here


Have a word with yourselves, if you think you could do better show Darth what you could do and lets see you in a blue & amber jersey

Or more established players continually go AWOL on defence.

Got to remember Keinhorst is no way a winger, so not the best comparison. He was only filling a gap for the injuries but maybe preferred over Watson and Chisolm as he does have SL experience at least. His performances at centre have been solid though too.

Vickery has been the brunt of alot of criticism, rightly or wrongly, but I've said before he's not entirely guilty. You have to look at who's playing inside him too, Ablett hasn't helped by not giving him opportunities with the ball and isolating him in defence, at times.

Vickery had a poor game no argument there, but I have to step in and say that the service from Ablett and Watkins to the rightside winger this year has been very poor and I don't agree that you make an out and out decision not to pass to someone in game time, you play your instincts and there have been times to ship the ball to the wing or at least bring the winger into play.

Possible changes given injuries remain the same, but think there needs to be an attempt to change and as supporters we support it versus be all gloom and doom 5 games into the season:

Keinhorst Hall
Moon Vickery
Watkins at full back


Moon Hall
Watkins Keinhorst
Watson at full back

It isn't the club making the comments - this is paying customers!! I disagree our defence was woeful I lost count of the number of times Brough evaded the tackle especially on Ablett. Huddersfield didn't lose the ball half as much as we did in the tackle so again another area where they were superior. How many tries did they score? it took us 70+ minutes to score one - the score flattered us that doesn't suggest a very even game to me.

You must have posted the point about Alex Brown at half time - his frailties were exposed in the second half

I see yer point H but i will add i thought other than Mcshane and JP i thought across the board we were garbage.
1st half defensively we looked decent i agree but 2nd half we imploded and literally handed them the confidence to move up a gear and batter us.
A point re-Vickery whilst obviously he wasn't very good he got no help whatsoever out there friday night after the 1st kick through try it was obvious they had him for pace out wide yet we adjusted nothing in our defensive shape.
I'd also ask why play Jjb for 30 minutes at BR then switch him to Prop when we have a fit Prop on the bench he was knackered.
I'd also like to see Burrow go off( or at least move to 7 )when Mcshane comes on in a like for like Mcshane is not a BR and Burrow still goes into the PTB when it should be Mcshanes job imo.
I hope we avoid the slump we've seen in the past 2 seasons but we'll have to step up big style for next week.

Don't say that. Hunslet are just starting to gel and look a strong promising team. Don't need him here

Stinker for Vickery. He was targeted and he couldn't cope with it.

Overall Leeds stunk. Vickerys errors didn't cost us the game. Our errors as a team and inability to cope with Brough did.

I also suspect that Vickery is not running at 100% on his ankle injury, but is back in the side as quickly as possible as there is no one else of better quality that is realistically available to fill that position.

As Bloodbath rightly says, it was not Vickery that lost us the game Vs Huddersfield and we could do a lot worse than start the post mortem at the door of 'Super Coach' BMD .... He's failed yet again, like most Leeds coaches since 2005, to effectively deal with the threat that Danny Brough poses.

IF this is correct it really [uis[/u a poor showing on Leeds's planned recent recruitment



Again, I respect Vickery for coming over under his own initiative, but the way he has been fast-tracked into the first team is a significant concern and reflection on the apparent inadequancies of the club's acadamey.

I hope he does prove his doubters (inc. me) wrong, but how many Kirke-like-chances should one lad be given before trying an alternative?

Given the run of games we've had - WCC, Sts, Hudds then Wigan - whoever got given the 2 shirt at the start was always likely to hold it throughout unless they blew it horribly in the first game or got injured. Vickery was OK against the Storm and obviously didn't lose us the game vs Sts (despite a poor performance). I find some of McDermott's decisions baffling, but once he'd made his choice I can't fault him for sticking with Vickery to date.

I will find it hard to defend McDermott if Vickery has another stinker against Wigan but then continues to get picked in what are on the surface 'easier' games.

If any part of the problem is Vickery not being 100% fit, then all blame should be directed at the coaching staff for picking him, not at a tyro player who's confidence could be blown apart by asking them to play whilst unfit. You can hardly blame Vickery for putting his hand up to play any game possible - he's obviously desperate to make it in SL.

I'd rather if we have to play someone who is not ready for SL, and therefore kills their confidence, that it be an import, rather than a promising youngster

This isn't a nursery fellas it's a full-time professional sport.

I can't believe that there aren't Academy prospects that would walk over hot coals for the opportunity given to Vickery - a player who in my continued opinion wouldn't have seen sight of 1st grade had he progressed through the Leeds system.

It is full-time professional sport, and its run by full-time professionals who know more about the game at the elite level, than all the internet coaches on here, and across the world put together. Some things we will never understand. One thing I do understand is that McDermott has won 2 grand finals as a coach, and a couple as a player. Hetherington has assembled 6 grand final winning squads with Leeds. In terms of judging who is better than who, or who is ready and who isn't.

Vickery hasn't started well at Leeds, he may prove to be a dud. If that happens I would expect us to cut our losses and move him on.

Until then, I would be happy to see him for what he is, 2nd reserve for the backs.

It's not the 'internet coaches' on here that are signing players and shipping them out on loan or out of the club altogether before their contracts are up.

There was a starting prop for Leeds on Friday that (according to Opta) failed to make a carry in the opening ten minutes of the match. How is that even possible at a full-time professional club with full-time professional players and a full-time professional coaching staff?



Just because you understand something doesn't neccesarily make it correct. Sounds like something he might have done but I'm not sure that he did.

I remember when the all conquering Wigan side used to win all before them. I think it was when they appointed Monie as coach, or maybe the one after, and the general statement from the Coach and the media at the time was "that this Wigan side could coach it's self, and not sure what difference the coach appointment would make". It was a sweeping statement, but not far off correct.

Winning those 2 grand finals for McDermott will go down in history, and good luck to him. But doing it off the back of others teams I'm sorry but it doesn't have the same worthiness. He still as a lot of questions to answer IMO to be regarded as high as his predecessors.

The Monie comment I recall was that his Grandmother could coach this team.

Perhaps she could but then it's doubtful she'd have lined up with a centre at full-back, a second-row at centre, a loose-forward at stand-off, a stand-off at scrum-half, a second row at prop, a scrum-half at hooker. To do that takes some proper coaching skilllzzzzs.

You can't have it both ways. You've been slating this squad of players and calling them finished for years, even before McDermott's arival. Now they're so good that they can win a Grand Final on their own.

No I haven't. You have been saying I have for years. Always talking nonsense of course and your own agenda's.

I just let you carry on with the rubbish.

Therefore my point stands.