Woken up mate? We’ve been mostly gash for almost ten years, this isn’t an epiphany moment shared only by the enlightened few.

It’s not rocket science, we need better players and effective coaching both.

People tend to look at a rugby league side in absolute terms because it’s how we like to compartmentalise. The truth IMO is that we need at least three, maybe more real high quality players. We don’t need to, and can’t, change the whole side.

There is absolutely no guarantee Leeds will make top six this year, or next. What we do is change one or two things at a time and we evolve into a stronger club.

You may have been aware of the situation, gash as you quaintly call it. Certainly not everyone on here until recently shared your opinion. Likewise the club who should have fired smith months ago. You say we need three quality’players, agree with that. Agree also we can’t change the whole side. What needs to change is the lack of intensity within the team, a good hard nosed coach can Change that. Look how saints piled into Wigan last night.
I was out the country for the leigh game so I can’t comment on that. But most of the time we seem to be off the pace for the majority of games. As several posters have commented, god alone knows what they do in training.

You’re creating a strawman argument- nowhere did I say this current squad will ‘save the day’ I simply stated its capable of playing better than we have recently wether that improvement will be enough to get us in the playoffs we will have to see, we’re currently 2 points of six it isnt insurmountable and if Smiths tactics and coaching abilities were a big part of the problem we should see some improvement as we’ve got a very good coach in place for the rest of the season.

The point of we are not that far off was in relation to the teams around us and the playoff places.

Carney's comments are interesting as they're from an outside perspective. I'd say he's wrong on one thing though, the idea of McDermott staying on. He was a big part of the problem in terms of decline, as there was clearly no succession planning as the Goldens retired, and our youth development just wasn't good enough for some time before he left. Our decline post 2015 was predictable - what wasn't is how poorly the club has reacted since then.

I think we're all agreed we're a few players short of being good enough. The big question is how much of our performances can be fixed by a new coach. I look at our pack and see soft puddings compared to the best. But the pack was built by Smith to play a particular way. Can they become more aggressive with and without the ball? Do they have it in them?

I don't think we have enough who can play a more in your face style, but I will be happy to be proved wrong. Also very interesting to see what happens with errors. For too long we have been a side full of poor errors. Can that be fixed by more accountability? Will players be dropped if they make howlers?

At least Arthur's appointment has made the remainder of the season interesting!

Just adding some intensity in defence and composure in attack would easily make this squad a top 6 team. Yea, we're not close to the top 2, but they should definitely be good enough for a 4th to 6th place finish.

We've probably left ourselves too much to do now given our run in.

Re: Carney's comments, whilst the overall message was correct, he's clearly generalising from the perspective of a SL pundit who looks at lots of clubs, and glossing a lot of detail.

There have been multiple times when it has felt like Leeds were getting back to the top - 2017 GF, 2020 CC, and the 2022 GF - only for us to slide back into the doldrums and start again from scratch. There has been no sustained path to improvement in this time, and we feel as far away as ever (bar the Furner low point).

One problem is that for every good decision on recruitment and retention we seem to make a bad one, and these decisions are compounded by changing our big picture plans every 2 years when a new coach is appointed. Blease is clearly hoping that any short-term boost gained from Arthur will be built upon by him staying longer term, or through the appointment of a replacement that shares his vision and is capable of pushing us forward at the same time. What makes this more likely to be better than the past, aside from a different administrator calling the shots?

Unfortunately with the exception of a couple or three the players brought in by Smith are nowhere near good enough for a top 3 or 4 team.
We probably need at least 6 decent new recruits and are able to ship almost as many out.
Fusi, Momorovski, Frawley, Goudemand, Donaldson, maybe Sangare and if he doesn`t start playing to his strengths Newman need shipping out.
We then need props such as Belin maybe who is available next year, Sironen/ Fitzgibbon type second rowers and a decent centre maybe 2 along with an organising half back or Mikey Lewis type player.
No way this will happen but that`s how far I believe we are from a top 3 team.

I must have been on a different site then when I read posts insisting that we were progressing under smith and how we would put some big scores on sides 'when the pitches firmup'.

It’s been too cold and wet for us though Seth given we’ve had a poor summer…..Maybe it wasn’t Rohan’s fault after all……maybe it’s global warming we should be blaming

No, but it’s also the same site that people post that we wont win any of our next six games etc etc, they're just opinions, and they can turn out to be wrong.

I'd never make an arbitrary statement like we'll not win any of our next 6 games (I'll be honest I've not seen that one) but I will say from observation that I'd seen no evidence of progress when others insisted there was and could well say that 'i can't see us winning X if we play like that. which set of 'opinions' has been closer to the mark consistently over the last 18 months.

Youve never seen posters saying i cant see is winning our next 6 games?

I still say there has been progress in the last 18 months within the whole club but unfortunately it hasn’t manifested itself to performances in the first team and it’s cost the coach his job.

Im not sure what you’re after? A medal or something

I've seen 'i can't see us winning X playing like that's.

A big shiny medal if you wouldn't mind that says 'congratulations for stating the bleeding obvious '

Chev walker comes across so poorly in his interviews, I'd struggle to be motivated by him. The whole team look and play like he sounds, dreary with zero inspiration. I'll be really disappointed if him and grix are still here next season.

Thinking about this further, from smith downwards the dominant (or sole) philosophy of pragmatism, 'you're never as bad or as good as you think', is nice to have as a foundation in life and in sport but with leeds itseems like its bred a such a laid back culture that the desire that's essential at this level just isnt there. They seem like nice guys and go9d friends but almost too nice. I'm glad weve already heard BA mention accountability, and that's the 'kick up the ar se' I think is desperately needed.

If I were Brad Arthur and I was asked to submit an assessment of the current playing squad this is what I would say!

Keep

Millar
Handley
Croft
Oledski
Ackers
Martin
Lisone
Gannon


Jurys Out

Newman - cost injuries consistency
O Connor - size
Mcdonnell - impact go forward
Bentley - as above can only keep 1
Smith - Needs a clear role
Holroyd - injuries plus lack of yards

Go

Fusitua - injuries cost quota space
Momorovski - average for a quota spot
Frawley - no comment needed
Sangare - never going to be good enough
Goudamond - underwhelming squad player
Donaldson - good guy but times up
Roberts - younger players more potential in position
Hudson - pointless signing

Essentially there is an argument that two third of the squad are not good enough.Have not included the youngsters and Corey Johnson who would be in the July out pool.

Frankly we could do a lot better than Lisone in my opinion. Not sure its fair on Hudson - I'd say the jury's out until we see him play isn't it?

You may be right, but if you are we can all put of feet up for at least another full season after this.

What we have to do now is fix up as much as we can within cap, contract and quota. I believe we can add 2x quality forwards and either a new 7 or centre and get us in better shape - it is a little depressing that we still look like we need to regroup and have a pre-season…

I suspect Arthur may upset a few on here in some of his first selections...

why? he can only work with what's there.
what he can improve is structure, discipline, game plan and organisation.
and after the last clown he will be a massive upgrade

I'd be surprised if in his first game at least he picks as close to the first choice 17 we have available. They're supposedly the best players and are the most experienced. Given how few games we have left to improve though he may make changes very quickly if performances don't pick up.

I wouldn't be surprised as he comes in with fresh eyes, shirt numbers will mean little and usually those further down the numbers are usually less experienced, not necessarily not as good. I
One I'll be interested to see what happens with is O'Connor, smith turned him into a 9 but I think 13 is a better fit and I think he'd be better there than smith at the minute so the halves are expected to dictate play more.

I wouldn’t say Smith turned him into a 9 - he was never going to get in the side past Cam. We needed cover at hooker and he had the right body type and some skill so there you go. One of the most picked players in the side for 2 years nearly.

Now he has bulked up a bit I think loose forward might be back in the frame, but he ultimately lacks size. TNW was picked at 13 for the reserves too.

Turned O'connor into a 9 and the rest into headless chickens.

indeed

He wasnt a 9 Before smith arrived, then he was a 9. Whatever the reasons smith still turned O'Connor into a 9.