On a lighter note Powell took a leaf out of Brians book last night. He only used 3 subs. lol

That thread gets dragged up more often than not by the idiots on here who only come on this board when we lose or away fans on the wind up.like i say, it is the same as all the other boards just that we seem to have a classic all in one place thread that due to its title has stood the test of time.

I agree about the negativity at times but losing at home to a very poor giants team minus their best player is bound to see reactions of that nature, no matter our current squad depletion.

No structure, No organisation, No gameplan, clueless in attack, soft in defence, poor use of subs, dreadful rugby for most of his tenure. These are the things i base my opinion on, which of those arnt true? If you rate him thats fine, But to say theres no basis for the criticism of mcdermott is laughable and plain wrong.

Wow, why are you even a fan? Do you just turn up to the finals? Like the 4 Grand finals he’s taken us to, the 4 world club challenges, the 4 challenge cup finals?

No Structure, No Organisation, No gameplan? Yep, we’ve lost every game 80 - nil under McD. Not a single player understands what they’re doing, it’s so obvious. Thank you.

Clueless in attack? - Myler topped the assists chart last week. But you know, we’ve not scored a try since McD came to the club so yeah, we’re totally clueless as we’ve been nilled in every game as mentioned previously.

Soft in defence - yeah, we’ve conceded 8 more points than castleford this season. Totally soft.

Poor use of subs - and I guess your coaching masterclasses you hold every week for the 11 other super league coaches is why they’re all more successful than we are.

Dreadful rugby for most of his tenure - damn it, we keep coming last in the league. Our rugby is so damn awful. I mean, holding Cas to nearly nil and producing one of the best GF performances I’ve seen is so damn dreadful.

But yeah, keep believing your poop tinted glasses. Or you know, go support someone else. Cheerio.

It has been hard to watch for a lot of his era though, i don't think you can argue that to be honest. Yes, he has been great and getting us over the line when it matters but apart from the first half of 2015 it generally hasn't been entertaining. If you think it has been, great for you but iv'e not enjoyed most of the seasons with my eye up until those play off series.

Wow, what a baby....As i guessed , no meaningful argument to any of them, didnt quite forsee the utter childishness that came with it, that was an unexpected and enjoyable bonus. The go support someone else and only here for the glory lines are always the most cringe worthy when spewd out by the self believing superfan on there high horse with others who dare voice criticism or frustration with whats goin on at the club. You clearly dont like anyone to have a different opinion than you, maybe boards like this arnt the best place for you.

If you like to take the sit and smile regardless approach, good for you, clap your hands at the shiny tropheys. Other fans can see the limitations in mcdermott's coaching ability, and as is there right, express it.

It’s frustrating when we lose but it’s been an absolute joy to watch some of the greatest players of the super league era week in week out. Learning from those losses and then when it matters putting all that experience into winning 6/8 finals. Also seeing us win the 2012 WCC at HQ was up there in the greatest performances we’ve had. I have been thoroughly entertained and McD is the best SL coach. If and when someone overtakes his achievements we can have someone on his level to compare him with. But until then, there isn’t anyone close to him.

Where is your meaningful analysis of the criticisms you spout? Or can you just say the things you did without any supporting argument. Then when someone rips apart your points say that there wasn’t any meaningful argument?

Yes, I enjoy going to watch the team I support win or lose. That’s what being a fan is. But if you’re being some sort of snowflake every time we lose then yes, I’m going to call you out when you voice criticism with no basis to those critiques.

What is exactly going on at the club? The most successful coach presiding over the most successful club going through a multi-million pound redevelopment of our stadium to build a legacy for years to come. Damn it, why oh why are things SO bad????

He has a great record, perhaps the greatest of any coach in our history as far as how many trophies have been won, no doubt about it and for that he will always get credit from me.That said, he has had some of the best players we have ever had to work with during that time and his reign has also coincided with a drop in standards at the top of of SL which has imo opened the door for us to be able to win as much as we have done.

2011 and 2012 we were crap though nearly all the regular season and barely scraped 5th. Yes, it was magnificent to pull two titles out the fire from there and therefore easy to forget the fact we were so bad. 2013 2014 we were again pretty average in SL and i cant remember a classic game over those two years, and Mac probably only saved his job during that period by pulling out a first CC in years. 2016, need i say more? 2017 a hard grind to finish 2nd in a SL where most of the top teams were poor bar Cas. Like i say, nothing against the man, i have huge respect for him and he deserves to go down in history as a great but apart from 2015 the seasons have generally been a drag and thankfully been saved by the GF nights.

Just to finish and emphasise my point, during the doug Laughton era early to mid 90s we won sod all and were the brides maid to wigan a lot but you generally knew when you showed up on a matchday you would get entertained and i still hold that era in as high a regard as any during the SL era due to that fact.

There you go again "Thats what being a fan is" says who? You? I didnt relize there was a set rule on how to be a fan. Can you not accept that other people dont agree with your view of what being a fan is about, and that voicing there opinion about things they see is acceptable, even if its negative?

I can see why your happy with mcdermott, IE the tropheys. Your failing to see and stated , there is no basis for any criticism of him and any argument to the contrary falls down when challenged, this is complete rubbish imo. You havnt pulled me up on anything, i told you the basis of my opinion and your response was child like, albeit amusing.

Mcdermott out.

The Doug Laughton era was fantastic to watch, like you say, not successful, but always played a good brand of rugby. Loved watching fallon and Iro together on the right edge.

Thank you for a well formed contra argument.

2011 was a massive year in all respect, McD came in to a successful club and had to put his stamp on the team. Yes we had great players, but they all kept resigning extensions to play under him. I think the league form was likely down to players being uncomfortable with his coaching style. Name players that have left during his tenure that have been successful under other coaches?

In 2014, we were joint 2nd until round 21 then fell apart in the league after the cc win. I suspect the players mentally were done after that and I think that was disappointing. Both players and coach accept that as mentioned in the AGAIG documentary. Fast forward a year, almost replicating the same downfall. We have the experience to complete the treble.

2016 was a perfect storm and we were awful, but I don’t believe McD told the players to go out there and play crap, he managed to turn it around when it mattered and when we got our training facilities back.

I loved the Doug Laughton era, that was when I was a young kid and fell in love with the game.

I agree standards have fallen but that’s not leeds’ fault. The game needs some serious investment to get it back to the peak SL era which I think was when Tony Smith was in charge. Some of the rugby we played then was amazing to watch. Where that investment comes from will be interesting and hope the new RFL chief can help it get back to that.

But as a club, we seem to be doing alright despite this. I’ll be a fan if we get to old Trafford, I’ll be a fan if we get relegated to the championship.

I’ll try one last time.

You’re argument is like this:

I have a piece of 24crt gold, you say “that’s not gold, it’s crap”. I say “well, I’ve analysed the gold and it is indeed gold, not crap. Here is the supporting evidence”. You say “it is crap because I say it’s crap and I’m right. You can’t tell me I’m wrong because I believe I’m right”, despite not offering anything to say why you’re right except for stating it is crap.

When attempting to deal with this sort of failed logic all I can say now is. “OK, you’re entitled to your opinion”. Shrug and move on.

Thats a terrible comparison, you probably thought it was intellectual, it wasnt. The gold you refer to is either gold or crap, after analysis you find out one way or another, for a fact, not opinion, fact. We're talking opinions, Your opinion is the criticism of mcdermott has no basis, my opinion is the criticism of mcdermott has plenty of basis.

You see the tropheys, I agree the tropheys are there. I see the lack of structure, no gameplan, no organisation, clueless attack, soft defence, poor rotation of subs and years of dreadful rugby. You obviously dont see any of that, and although that makes me question your knowledge of the game, i can respect your opinion, something you dont seem to be able to do with mine. You ask for analysis but its not as complicated as that, i watch us play rugby and form my opinion based off what i see. Where is your analysis to prove what i see is wrong? You offered up things like me supporting another team, that im only there for finals and some rubbish about my coaching classes and pass it off as analysis, it wasnt, it was a petulant strop because i dared have a differant opinion about mcdermotts coaching ability than you have.

We agree on the tropheys, the laughton era and the shrug and move on, nothing much else.

Maybe, but I would imagine if this forum was around then the complaining about not winning anything would br absolutely rife and probably by the same people who moan about McDermott.

So, would the moaners swap our trophies for entertaining rugby during the regular season? Would you swap places last year with Castleford? Was the GF win not good?

I am stating the success (gold) we’ve had under McD as facts. That backs up my opinion that McD and the team suffer unfair criticism on this board every time we lose.

You keep stating your list of opinions. If your opinions had any basis in fact, you would offer those facts to back them up instead of just listing your opinions and saying “well that’s my opinion and how I see it” as your justification for it.

Let me ask you a question, if we have a lack of structure, no gameplan, no organisation, clueless attack, soft defence, poor rotation of subs and years of dreadful rugby. Would we be the most successful club is SL under the most successful coach in SL?

I say the things I do for comedic effect. Because the opinions you offer, in my opinion, deserve ridicule. That’s my opinion so you can’t now say anything against this because that’s my opinion.

Apples and oranges, the laughton era team were competing against one of the best club sides ever, who were a match for even some of the best NRL teams of all time, like the Brisbaine team of that era. We were a great team that played great rugby, i would of loved to have won afew trophies at the time but i could accept We were competing against something special and i enjoyed the rugby we played and the odd time we beat them. Like Dyl, that was when i started loving rugby league and Leeds inparticular, so i very much doubt id of been on here complaining about them.

I wouldnt call people who dont rate mcdermott "moaners" just like i wouldnt call people who rate him fanboys or cheerleaders, we'r all fans of Leeds with different views and different ways of expressing them.

To answer your question, i dont think it has to be one or the other for a club as big as us, i believe we should be well capable of challenging for and winning our fair share of trophies, whilst playing a good standard of entertaining rugby. Would the people who rate mcdermott have enjoyed the rugby we'v played during his time in charge, if we'd lost a couple of those grandfinals or playoff games?

Thought we'd shrugged our shoulders and moved on? How can i take you seriously when you cant make your mind up from one post to the next. Go on, il humour you...

The success had started long before mcdermott became head coach, since he took over the league positions have largley got worse and the rugby dramatically worse, despite the standard of the opposition getting significantly weaker.

Let me ask you a question? How can a coach with an apparant lack of any weakness, guide a club as big as us, to the middle eights two seasons ago and well on our way there this year? Please dont say injuries, every club gets them.

Dont tell fibs, Your giving yourself way too much credit, you say the things you do because your out of your depth in this discussion. Trying to pass them off as comedic effect is silly.

I know i started this about the laughton era saying i loved it to watch but i have to say that if that was in the social media era like now, you would still have got many many people wanting his head on a regular basis. Mainly because we were so starved of success back then and he got so much money to spend and we fell short, i remember he brought in Hanley, Eyres, Mercer, Fallon, Innes, Faimalo, Iro, Tait and others all cost a lot of money and with his reputation for winning trophies at Widnes we all thought it would be a given he would deliver for us.yes looking back the rugby was great, fantastic at times. But lets not pretend there was not serious frustration at the time we couldn't land any trophies as good as wigan were

Well personally i would call people that have consistently used the same arguments to call for McDermotts head sice june 2011 ‘moaners’ but lets agree to disagree.

The point is we have won those GFs those are facts, the enjoyment of the rugby is opinion.

Please read my post and respond logically instead of emotionally. Then I might answer your question. How can I take you seriously when you invent things I’ve said in your head and then ask me to prove these inventions. When did I say he has no weakness?

Fair enough that pal can't argue with that view.

I have never called for his head once, but felt he should have walked away at end of 2015 and let someone else re-shape the squad. I've always said that a coach with Mcdermott's record needs to go on his terms and not be pushed but it seems the only way he does go is when GH pulls the trigger which is a big shame.

How many Challenge cups had we won in the SL era before Mcdermott and how many after?

How many Trebles?

How many times since hetherington and caddick saved us had we nearly got relegated?

We could go on like a couple of schoolgirls forever, im sure everyone else is sick of us, i thought we'd agreed to move on, but then you appear again. You need to accept that not everyone has to agree with you. I dont care if you answer my question, you'v shown me you lack an undestanding of the game, your answer would more than likely be another failed attempt at intellect, humour or a mixture of both, maybe some nonsense about gold and crap. I dont rate mcdermott, you do. Il be the bigger man and say we'l agree to disagree.