|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 5526 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Aug 2008 | 16 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Mar 2019 | Mar 2019 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Him"Will leaving the EU limit the supply of midgets? Or cake?'"
Oh sod off
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Moderator | 9225 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Aug 2006 | 18 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
Moderator
|
| No, but the glass coffee tables will be deported back.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 4938 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2005 | 19 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jul 2018 | Mar 2017 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| The result of this referendum will make no difference whatsoever.
Whatever the result, we can all look forward to more neoliberalism, more austerity, more privatisation of profit, more socialisation of debt and risk, more inequality, more zombie economy debt, more global corporate influence, less democracy, more tax-dodging, less investment in public services, more scapegoating, more toxicity, more racism, more wars for profit and further transference of wealth from the poor to the rich. Gordon Gekko's and Patrick Bateman's by plenty.
If ever a referendum provided an illusion of choice, this is it.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 14970 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jun 2002 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2021 | Nov 2021 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 4934 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Aug 2008 | 16 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Oct 2022 | Dec 2020 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="SmokeyTA"bankers and fatcats like the TUC? GMB? Unison? CWU? NFU? Kofi Annan? Sir Stephen Hawking? Sir Tim Berners-lee?'"
Unable to produce any economic positives for staying in the EU the Remain campaign set about to try and scare the public by producing a number of economic reports and a fake fear budget which take the very worst possible senario and promote it as fact. To back this up a motley crew of celebs, Unions and loyal acronyms have been wheeled out under the broad heading of expert opinion.
Now everyone is entitled to an opinion but surely before being influenced by third parties, in what is such an important decision, it is prudent to examine the prominence of these so called experts. Because you are an expert in a particular field like science or an inventor does not therefore give you expert status to be able to advise the public on economic matters, or immigration or sovereignty. Neither does being an ex Secretary General of the UN. Unions like power and influence and are not known to favour too much democracy so no surprise they like the power central undemocratic EU.
The various acronyms that do specialise in economics, but not immigration or democracy, should be worth a listen. But as they too cannot produce facts and only predictions you have to study their various records in predicting events. None of those named predicted the economic crisis and all said the UK would go into serious decline if we didn't join the Euros single currency. One of them, the IMF, had to make a grovelling apology to the British government for predicting a slow down in the UK economy with many bad things to come - the opposite was ghe case. So these so called economic experts are really not too good at economic predictions in reality.
The truth is there are no facts for either side because there is no precedent for a country to leave the EU. In fact the only similar event was when Greenland voted in a referendum to leave the EEC and they have done very well outside.
Therefore I think it is misleading of the Remainers to claim so called experts say we would be better to stay in the EU and there are great risks to leaving. To scare pensioners, the low paid and young families with tales of disaster ahead without proof is an attempt to deliberately mislead the public. The majority of these groups have a vested interest
to remain as they are doing all right thank you.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Owner | 17226 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Aug 2003 | 21 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Mar 2019 | Mar 2019 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
|
Quote ="Juan Cornetto"Unable to produce any economic positives for staying in the EU the Remain campaign set about to try and scare the public by producing a number of economic reports and a fake fear budget which take the very worst possible senario and promote it as fact. To back this up a motley crew of celebs, Unions and loyal acronyms have been wheeled out under the broad heading of expert opinion.
Now everyone is entitled to an opinion but surely before being influenced by third parties, in what is such an important decision, it is prudent to examine the prominence of these so called experts. Because you are an expert in a particular field like science or an inventor does not therefore give you expert status to be able to advise the public on economic matters, or immigration or sovereignty. Neither does being an ex Secretary General of the UN. Unions like power and influence and are not known to favour too much democracy so no surprise they like the power central undemocratic EU.
The various acronyms that do specialise in economics, but not immigration or democracy, should be worth a listen. But as they too cannot produce facts and only predictions you have to study their various records in predicting events. None of those named predicted the economic crisis and all said the UK would go into serious decline if we didn't join the Euros single currency. One of them, the IMF, had to make a grovelling apology to the British government for predicting a slow down in the UK economy with many bad things to come - the opposite was ghe case. So these so called economic experts are really not too good at economic predictions in reality.
The truth is there are no facts for either side because there is no precedent for a country to leave the EU. In fact the only similar event was when Greenland voted in a referendum to leave the EEC and they have done very well outside.
Therefore I think it is misleading of the Remainers to claim so called experts say we would be better to stay in the EU and there are great risks to leaving. To scare pensioners, the low paid and young families with tales of disaster ahead without proof is an attempt to deliberately mislead the public. The majority of these groups have a vested interest
to remain as they are doing all right thank you.'" Lol, you couldn't make it up.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06 ... e-experts/
|
|
Quote ="Juan Cornetto"Unable to produce any economic positives for staying in the EU the Remain campaign set about to try and scare the public by producing a number of economic reports and a fake fear budget which take the very worst possible senario and promote it as fact. To back this up a motley crew of celebs, Unions and loyal acronyms have been wheeled out under the broad heading of expert opinion.
Now everyone is entitled to an opinion but surely before being influenced by third parties, in what is such an important decision, it is prudent to examine the prominence of these so called experts. Because you are an expert in a particular field like science or an inventor does not therefore give you expert status to be able to advise the public on economic matters, or immigration or sovereignty. Neither does being an ex Secretary General of the UN. Unions like power and influence and are not known to favour too much democracy so no surprise they like the power central undemocratic EU.
The various acronyms that do specialise in economics, but not immigration or democracy, should be worth a listen. But as they too cannot produce facts and only predictions you have to study their various records in predicting events. None of those named predicted the economic crisis and all said the UK would go into serious decline if we didn't join the Euros single currency. One of them, the IMF, had to make a grovelling apology to the British government for predicting a slow down in the UK economy with many bad things to come - the opposite was ghe case. So these so called economic experts are really not too good at economic predictions in reality.
The truth is there are no facts for either side because there is no precedent for a country to leave the EU. In fact the only similar event was when Greenland voted in a referendum to leave the EEC and they have done very well outside.
Therefore I think it is misleading of the Remainers to claim so called experts say we would be better to stay in the EU and there are great risks to leaving. To scare pensioners, the low paid and young families with tales of disaster ahead without proof is an attempt to deliberately mislead the public. The majority of these groups have a vested interest
to remain as they are doing all right thank you.'" Lol, you couldn't make it up.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06 ... e-experts/
|
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 17160 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
|
Quote ="Juan Cornetto" To scare pensioners,.... with tales of disaster ahead without proof is an attempt to deliberately mislead the public. The majority of these groups have a vested interest
to remain as they are doing all right thank you.'"
www.express.co.uk/news
Staying in the EU will be CATASTROPHIC for state and private pensions, expert warns.
You are too myopic to be serious.
|
|
Quote ="Juan Cornetto" To scare pensioners,.... with tales of disaster ahead without proof is an attempt to deliberately mislead the public. The majority of these groups have a vested interest
to remain as they are doing all right thank you.'"
www.express.co.uk/news
Staying in the EU will be CATASTROPHIC for state and private pensions, expert warns.
You are too myopic to be serious.
|
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 14970 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jun 2002 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2021 | Nov 2021 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| I'm sorry, which side is using fear as a propaganda tool?
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 3813 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jun 2008 | 17 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Mar 2020 | Feb 2020 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Not Project Fear as much as Project Hate.
Meanwhile I think the chlorine has gone to Juan's head with his 'so called experts' rant.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 1217 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Sep 2009 | 15 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| So, to be clear....should I vote in or out?
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Board Member | 28186 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Apr 2003 | 22 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Aug 2016 | Aug 2016 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
|
Quote ="Juan Cornetto"Now everyone is entitled to an opinion but surely before being influenced by third parties, in what is such an important decision, it is prudent to examine the prominence of these so called experts. '"
So when it comes to the economic argument, should I listen to Michael Gove (2:1 in English, career as a journalist) and Chris Grayling (2:1 in History, career in television production) or ten of the world's leading economists?
www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... xit-damage
Just want to make sure I'm prudently examining the prominence of the so-called experts on both sides.
|
|
Quote ="Juan Cornetto"Now everyone is entitled to an opinion but surely before being influenced by third parties, in what is such an important decision, it is prudent to examine the prominence of these so called experts. '"
So when it comes to the economic argument, should I listen to Michael Gove (2:1 in English, career as a journalist) and Chris Grayling (2:1 in History, career in television production) or ten of the world's leading economists?
www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... xit-damage
Just want to make sure I'm prudently examining the prominence of the so-called experts on both sides.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 4934 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Aug 2008 | 16 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Oct 2022 | Dec 2020 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Him"I'm sorry, which side is using fear as a propaganda tool?
'"
Undoubtedly Project Fear has been the main thrust of the Remain campaign run by by Cameron and Osborne from the very start. You cannot argue with this. I cannot recall anything positive they have said about staying in the EU, just a catalogue of disasters if we leave be it thousands of pounds less in people's pockets, huge unemployment, massive tax rises, renaging on the pensioners triple lock, back of the queue in making trade deals, increases in food, increases in everthing else, the pound plummeting, stock exchanges in melt down, another European war, huge tarriffs, flying in Obama to issues threats to his closest ally etc etc. Then there has been the coordinated personal attacks on the likes of Boris Johnson.
The official Leave campaign has on the whole been positive and optimistic and more up beat with little fear or personal attacks and no threats.
Nigel Farage is not part of the official Leave campaign and has as always been more controversal. His recent poster certainly had some project fear about it but the hypocritical outrage coming from the orginators of the official Project Fear campaign is laughable as they are quite happy to dole it out but shout foul when the ball is smashed back.
I am not a reader of the Express but last time I looked they are also not part of the official Leave campaign. In a free press they are entitled to give their comment as indeed does the Guardian too with its one sided views . If fear can be backed up with facts it is legitimate. I would suggest some of those Express headlines can be backed up with facts.
However which of the official Project Fear campaign tales of doom can be backed up with facts? Wheeling out so called experts to back up their acute pessimism has largely been discredited because of the absence of facts. I have been arguing for facts not opinions from the celeb experts and their acolytes with so far none forthcoming
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 22777 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
May 2006 | 19 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jun 2020 | Feb 2018 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Juan Cornetto"Undoubtedly Project Fear has been the main thrust of the Remain campaign run by by Cameron and Osborne from the very start. You cannot argue with this. I cannot recall anything positive they have said about staying in the EU, just a catalogue of disasters if we leave be it thousands of pounds less in people's pockets, huge unemployment, massive tax rises, renaging on the pensioners triple lock, back of the queue in making trade deals, increases in food, increases in everthing else, the pound plummeting, stock exchanges in melt down, another European war, huge tarriffs, flying in Obama to issues threats to his closest ally etc etc. Then there has been the coordinated personal attacks on the likes of Boris Johnson.
The official Leave campaign has on the whole been positive and optimistic and more up beat with little fear or personal attacks and no threats.
Nigel Farage is not part of the official Leave campaign and has as always been more controversal. His recent poster certainly had some project fear about it but the hypocritical outrage coming from the orginators of the official Project Fear campaign is laughable as they are quite happy to dole it out but shout foul when the ball is smashed back.
I am not a reader of the Express but last time I looked they are also not part of the official Leave campaign. In a free press they are entitled to give their comment as indeed does the Guardian too with its one sided views . If fear can be backed up with facts it is legitimate. I would suggest some of those Express headlines can be backed up with facts.
However which of the official Project Fear campaign tales of doom can be backed up with facts? Wheeling out so called experts to back up their acute pessimism has largely been discredited because of the absence of facts. I have been arguing for facts not opinions from the celeb experts and their acolytes with so far none forthcoming'" ignoring expert opinion because it can't be 100% proven and listening to passionate salesmen blaming them and selling you a rosy future is how people end up refusing chemotherapy and treating cancer with crystals
Leave is asking me to ignore the experts because if we all just believe hard enough it will all turn out great.
Frankly I stopped believing in fairytales a long long time ago and I have no respect for those who continue to pedal them to vulnerable people for their own benefit
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Board Member | 17230 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2002 | 22 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Dec 2024 | Nov 2020 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Juan Cornetto"Undoubtedly Project Fear has been the main thrust of the Remain campaign run by by Cameron and Osborne from the very start. You cannot argue with this. I cannot recall anything positive they have said about staying in the EU, just a catalogue of disasters if we leave be it thousands of pounds less in people's pockets, huge unemployment, massive tax rises, renaging on the pensioners triple lock, back of the queue in making trade deals, increases in food, increases in everthing else, the pound plummeting, stock exchanges in melt down, another European war, huge tarriffs, flying in Obama to issues threats to his closest ally etc etc. Then there has been the coordinated personal attacks on the likes of Boris Johnson.
The official Leave campaign has on the whole been positive and optimistic and more up beat with little fear or personal attacks and no threats.'"
Right from the start I have been undecided, and swung one way then the other. But recently I have read up on everything, and although still in my heart I go one way, and in my head the other.
What I do know is what you have put above, is coimplete and utter nonsense. From everything I have read the only fear campaign in this referendum has been from the Leave side. Nothing positive or truthful for that matter has come out of that side, just gimmicks and soundbites that catch attention. I certainly have my issues with Europe and some of the things with the remain side, but they have at the very least laid facts on the table, and stuck to how it works. On that basis, I have no choice, for the sake of my family, and the employees under me to go with what is coming loud and clear in the head, rather than the heart.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Board Member | 28186 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Apr 2003 | 22 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Aug 2016 | Aug 2016 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Juan Cornetto"The official Leave campaign has on the whole been positive and optimistic and more up beat with little fear or personal attacks and no threats.'"
So Michael Gove comparing economists to Nazi stooges who denegrated the work of Einstein this morning isn't a personal attack on their integrity and ability?
Righto.
The constant rhetoric of "taking back control" from the official Leave campaign is in no way meant to scare anyone into voting Leave?
Righto.
Still, it's good to see your total inability to recognise facts even when laid right in front of your eyes extends beyond rugby league and into the wider world. The fact is that NOBODY within the Leave campaign has the foggiest clue what will happen if they win the vote tomorrow. Their entire campaign is based on a triumphalist, nationalist optimism that because we're Britain we'll find a way to figure it out and come out the other end smelling of roses.
They don't know what the outcome of trade talks will be. They don't know what kind of agreement they will be able to negotiate with the EU and the rest of the world. They don't know how long those agreements will take to finalise and what will happen in the meantime. They are stepping off a ledge into a very dark hole and hoping that there's a soft mattress at the bottom rather than a bed of spikes. They are preying on the insecurities of small-minded xenophobes who believe Britain is "full".
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 3813 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jun 2008 | 17 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Mar 2020 | Feb 2020 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Juan Cornetto"Undoubtedly Project Fear has been the main thrust of the Remain campaign run by by Cameron and Osborne from the very start. You cannot argue with this. I cannot recall anything positive they have said about staying in the EU, just a catalogue of disasters if we leave be it thousands of pounds less in people's pockets, huge unemployment, massive tax rises, renaging on the pensioners triple lock, back of the queue in making trade deals, increases in food, increases in everthing else, the pound plummeting, stock exchanges in melt down, another European war, huge tarriffs, flying in Obama to issues threats to his closest ally etc etc. Then there has been the coordinated personal attacks on the likes of Boris Johnson.
The official Leave campaign has on the whole been positive and optimistic and more up beat with little fear or personal attacks and no threats.
Nigel Farage is not part of the official Leave campaign and has as always been more controversal. His recent poster certainly had some project fear about it but the hypocritical outrage coming from the orginators of the official Project Fear campaign is laughable as they are quite happy to dole it out but shout foul when the ball is smashed back.
I am not a reader of the Express but last time I looked they are also not part of the official Leave campaign. In a free press they are entitled to give their comment as indeed does the Guardian too with its one sided views . If fear can be backed up with facts it is legitimate. I would suggest some of those Express headlines can be backed up with facts.
However which of the official Project Fear campaign tales of doom can be backed up with facts? Wheeling out so called experts to back up their acute pessimism has largely been discredited because of the absence of facts. I have been arguing for facts not opinions from the celeb experts and their acolytes with so far none forthcoming'"
If lining up with Johnson, Gove, Grayling, Patel, Duncan-Smith, Putin, Farage, Nick Griffin, Britain First, Katie Hopkins, Louise Mensch, Toby Young, George Galloway and all the rest of the who's who of Britain's crackpots, oddballs and racists isn't enough for people to reconsider whether they're wise to decide on a "Leave" vote, then the deaf-eared, fact-free propagandist ramblings of Juan should be enough to send them over the edge. Good work, Mr.Cornetto.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 3813 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jun 2008 | 17 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Mar 2020 | Feb 2020 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Andy Gilder"
Still, it's good to see your total inability to recognise facts even when laid right in front of your eyes extends beyond rugby league and into the wider world.'"
This.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 17160 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Juan Cornetto"
I am not a reader of the Express but last time I looked they are also not part of the official Leave campaign. In a free press they are entitled to give their comment as indeed does the Guardian too with its one sided views . If fear can be backed up with facts it is legitimate. I would suggest some of those Express headlines can be backed up with facts. '"
The rabid xenophobic right wing press is the mouth piece of the Leave campaign. Their hatred & bile led to the murder of a fine MP & mother. That leaves its leaders free to promise unattainable milk & honey. The Remain campaign do not have that free publicity. I loathe Cameron, Osborne & their neo-liberal economics with a passion, & generally do not believe a word that comes out of their gobs. I have family in Western & Eastern Europe, have travelled & volunteered a fair bit through Europe. I have more affinity with those Europeans & a belief they have a sense of social justice than I do with an Eton Oxbridge elite with an ideological hatred of the public sector, which is why I am will be voting Remain. Nothing to do with economics.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 17160 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="craigizzard"If lining up with Johnson, Gove, Grayling, Patel, Duncan-Smith, Putin, Farage, Nick Griffin, Britain First, Katie Hopkins, Louise Mensch, Toby Young, George Galloway and all the rest of the who's who of Britain's crackpots, oddballs and racists isn't enough for people to reconsider whether they're wise to decide on a "Leave" vote, then the deaf-eared, fact-free propagandist ramblings of Juan should be enough to send them over the edge. Good work, Mr.Cornetto.'"
He's got to be a Remain agent. No-one can be that myopic.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 4934 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Aug 2008 | 16 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Oct 2022 | Dec 2020 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
|
Quote ="Andy Gilder"So when it comes to the economic argument, should I listen to Michael Gove (2:1 in English, career as a journalist) and Chris Grayling (2:1 in History, career in television production) or ten of the world's leading economists?
www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... xit-damage
Just want to make sure I'm prudently examining the prominence of the so-called experts on both sides.'"
Well you have not prudently done your homework very well examining the prominence of the lead "nobel winning" economist Sir Christopher Pissarides have you? He once passionately believed in the single currency and was instrumental in getting his homeland of Cyprus to join the Euro in 2008. In 2013 in an extraordinary change of heart he had to admit he was wrong and gave a lecture saying the Euro had created a lost generation and called for the Euro to be broken up.
He said that the EU "will get nowhere plodding along with the current line up of ad hoc decision-making and inconsisten policies. The policies pursued now to steady the Euros are costing Europe jobs and they are creating a lost generation of educated young people. This is not what the founding fathers promised"
So a 180 about turn from your main "expert". This highlights my point that economics is not a science and predictions and projections from economists are more wrong than right. therefore to blindly take what any of these groups of economists say as gospel and somehow give weight to Project Fear is a nonsense. That people, including youself, are influenced by the so called expertsand without question is plain to see from your post and if this forms a basis for voting to remain then Project Fear has worked.
Apart from questioning the record individual or group of economists you also have to look where their pay or funding comes from to check out impartiality as in many cases they are guns for hire. In the case of Professor Pissarides his employer, the LSE, receives generous funding from the EU too.
As I say economists are crystal ball gazers and the voter should make his mind up on the facts not the fiction.
Ask yourself if we were not a member of the EU would you join now?
Would you prefer that the UK democratically elected parliament is fully responsible for 100% of UK affairs? Or do you prefer the unelected Eurocrats from 27 other countries to have a major say in our affairs?
Would you prefer that our supreme court of justice has the final say on UK judgements of law? Or the judges in Luxembourg?
Would you prefer we are allowed to make our own trade deals around the world or do you prefer we leave it to 27 other countries with 27 other interest to consider?
Would you prefer we have the control of the whole gross amount of our contribution we make to the EU or are you happy to leave it to the Eurocrats and keep paying the huge net contribution?
Yes there are risks to leaving but there are equal risks to staying in such a flawed and failing political group.
|
|
Quote ="Andy Gilder"So when it comes to the economic argument, should I listen to Michael Gove (2:1 in English, career as a journalist) and Chris Grayling (2:1 in History, career in television production) or ten of the world's leading economists?
www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... xit-damage
Just want to make sure I'm prudently examining the prominence of the so-called experts on both sides.'"
Well you have not prudently done your homework very well examining the prominence of the lead "nobel winning" economist Sir Christopher Pissarides have you? He once passionately believed in the single currency and was instrumental in getting his homeland of Cyprus to join the Euro in 2008. In 2013 in an extraordinary change of heart he had to admit he was wrong and gave a lecture saying the Euro had created a lost generation and called for the Euro to be broken up.
He said that the EU "will get nowhere plodding along with the current line up of ad hoc decision-making and inconsisten policies. The policies pursued now to steady the Euros are costing Europe jobs and they are creating a lost generation of educated young people. This is not what the founding fathers promised"
So a 180 about turn from your main "expert". This highlights my point that economics is not a science and predictions and projections from economists are more wrong than right. therefore to blindly take what any of these groups of economists say as gospel and somehow give weight to Project Fear is a nonsense. That people, including youself, are influenced by the so called expertsand without question is plain to see from your post and if this forms a basis for voting to remain then Project Fear has worked.
Apart from questioning the record individual or group of economists you also have to look where their pay or funding comes from to check out impartiality as in many cases they are guns for hire. In the case of Professor Pissarides his employer, the LSE, receives generous funding from the EU too.
As I say economists are crystal ball gazers and the voter should make his mind up on the facts not the fiction.
Ask yourself if we were not a member of the EU would you join now?
Would you prefer that the UK democratically elected parliament is fully responsible for 100% of UK affairs? Or do you prefer the unelected Eurocrats from 27 other countries to have a major say in our affairs?
Would you prefer that our supreme court of justice has the final say on UK judgements of law? Or the judges in Luxembourg?
Would you prefer we are allowed to make our own trade deals around the world or do you prefer we leave it to 27 other countries with 27 other interest to consider?
Would you prefer we have the control of the whole gross amount of our contribution we make to the EU or are you happy to leave it to the Eurocrats and keep paying the huge net contribution?
Yes there are risks to leaving but there are equal risks to staying in such a flawed and failing political group.
|
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 4934 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Aug 2008 | 16 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Oct 2022 | Dec 2020 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="craigizzard"Not Project Fear as much as Project Hate.
Meanwhile I think the chlorine has gone to Juan's head with his 'so called experts' rant.'"
You cannot offer an aurgument against what I said though can you?
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 11412 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Sep 2010 | 14 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2021 | Jul 2019 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Andy Gilder"They are preying on the insecurities of small-minded xenophobes who believe Britain is "full".'"
I'm voting stay but I am fed up of the 'Remain' voters dismissing and looking down on Leave voters with an almost snobbish contempt. Constantly bring up names such as Farage in some sort of way to shame a Leave voter. Even the JK Rowling article posted earlier was her ripping into Trump with plenty of disparaging terms used to describe him and then saying he's in favour of leave and thus tying leave voters with the same brush as those words she used to describe him.
Like I said I'm voting to remain but the attitude of many remain voters towards leave voters has been embarrassing trying to ridicule and belittle them.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 4934 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Aug 2008 | 16 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Oct 2022 | Dec 2020 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="SmokeyTA"ignoring expert opinion because it can't be 100% proven and listening to passionate salesmen blaming them and selling you a rosy future is how people end up refusing chemotherapy and treating cancer with crystals
Leave is asking me to ignore the experts because if we all just believe hard enough it will all turn out great.
Frankly I stopped believing in fairytales a long long time ago and I have no respect for those who continue to pedal them to vulnerable people for their own benefit'"
But you refuse to accept the very poor prediction record any of these so called experts have?
OK so you are not an optimist and you do not believe in our ability to make a success outside the EU yet you do believe the fairtales od doom and armageddon!
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 4934 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Aug 2008 | 16 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Oct 2022 | Dec 2020 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Gotcha"Right from the start I have been undecided, and swung one way then the other. But recently I have read up on everything, and although still in my heart I go one way, and in my head the other.
What I do know is what you have put above, is coimplete and utter nonsense. From everything I have read the only fear campaign in this referendum has been from the Leave side. Nothing positive or truthful for that matter has come out of that side, just gimmicks and soundbites that catch attention. I certainly have my issues with Europe and some of the things with the remain side, but they have at the very least laid facts on the table, and stuck to how it works. On that basis, I have no choice, for the sake of my family, and the employees under me to go with what is coming loud and clear in the head, rather than the heart.'"
So please explain which of the negative Remain points I listed above are accurate and why?
Also please quote me the Remain positive message because I must have missed it.
What are the negative or untruthfull things the Leave campaign have said?
Do you really believe the Remain campaign has not spread fear?
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 2490 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Mar 2015 | 10 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Mar 2020 | Mar 2020 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Not talking strictly about the EU, but why when making an important decision would you ignore a whole raft of experts, yet fully take on board the opinion of a non-expert with a clear ideology/agenda?
Seems pretty stupid.
I mean, if you were to get a £40k extension on your house, you would get your mate Bob (who's an accountant, but did a ok job of repointing his wall a few years ago) down the road to draw up the plans, or would you get an architect?
In our daily lives we rely on experts with a vastly superior knowledge on the subject than we have to help us do what's best, yet in one of the biggest decisions you'll ever make, you've decided they chat a load of b0ll0cks and you'll trust a load of politicians with dubious agendas and political records? Where's that banging against a brick wall emoticon gone?
|
|
|
|
|