And Percival should learn how to tackle and not fumble tha ball quite as much.

I do nt think that Watkins runs good enough lines. Whenever he does he is so much more effective. He stands too flat and doesn't take the ball at pace often enough. He has to find some space and run at the gap on the inside shoulder.

I would question the tactic of putting Watkins, who had been defending well at centre, into the second row of the scrum which then left Widdop in his place who then failed to defend what became a crucial try.

That wasn't the only poor use of Watkins in a scrum in the tournament. Vs New Zealand we had a scrum about 30m away from our own line and Watkins is in the scrum whilst Tom Burgess was stood as first receiver just running the ball in run of the mill style instead of using a scrum move to try and use Watkins.

Perfectly highlights the non existent use of him in this tournament.

And might I suggest the myth that Wayne Bennett is some sort of tactical genius. If Shaun Wane or Brian Mac had come up with that one they'd have got hammered.

Spot on.
I was looking why Watkins missed the tackle to let Inglis in only to realise he had packed down at SR which was well exploited by Australia.
On another note why did Watkins ar$e fall out when Cronk pushed him twice after the late tackle?
Watkins should have grabbed the little scrote by the throat instead of backing off.
Whilst I don`t want him belting Cronk he should have shown a bit more bottle especially as the penalty had already gone against him.
I`m sure Inglis would have done had it been the other way round.

He should have given Cronk a slap. It's a test match.
England didn't number up properly for Inglis's try. It was a big blind side, there was no chance the breaking forwards would get across. Widdop's best option was to defend one across on the outside of Inglis and force him in towards the breaking forwards. He was never going to stop him defending in to out with that much space and so close to the line.

yep, Same when all the Aussies laid into Graham for an accidental head clash with Thaiday and everybody watched on. Couldn't have imagined Paul Dixon, Barrie McDermott, Adrian Morley etc... having taken that back in the day! too much respect shown to these Aussies throughout, we refuse to rattle their cages even these days which is quite sad to see.

I think Bateman was the only one who supported Graham at that time.
Good for Bateman he didn`t take a step back (as usual)

Good point. Bateman was excellent in defence and hit hard. One of the few to not look in awe of them.

If he was the size of JP he'd be terrifying.

What tactics are in 4 drives and a kick?

True and one of the few players who punches above his weight.

It is but no more so than at club level where the same gentlemanly conduct applies. I guess that, and the increasingly injury risk-averse way that the game's played, stems from having paper-thin squads. Who can afford to have players banned or injured?

Given the season Watkins just had, in which he played in virtually every game for at times the worst team in SL, it was always going to be a big ask for him to pull up trees in the Four Nations.

Fair enough, he's an individual, and should have been able to perform at this level, but he's hardly been able to develop much as a player in the last 12 months under the circumstances. He's simply become unused to playing in a well-functioning team (comparing England to Leeds!). The same applies to Hall, who looked pretty flat by his standards in the games I saw.

I don't think either Watkins or Hall let themselves down badly in the Four Nations, but they should have been able to offer a lot more. Perhaps a better season for Leeds in 2017 will provide a better platform for Watkins in the World Cup? He's still in a better position than any other English centre that I know of.

I don't particularly get worked up over us losing. There is a gap but I don't think it's as big as some people do.

What annoys me is the way that we lose. With a whimper. We need much, much more aggression in my opinion. If that boils over occasionally and we end up with a man in the sin bin then meh I don't really care. I think if we just sit back and try and outplay we're going to struggle. I think we need to get stuck in and tvvat em. Try and put them off their game in a way that Wigan have done to Leeds a few times recently.

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agreed mate. we are not a million miles away.too much respect summed up by the the desperate scrap for swapping jerseys after the game, although that doesn't bother me. we can beat the kiwis, we should have beaten them first up playing average by tue way,so why do we struggle so much with the Aussies? we need to find the formula the kiwis found in 2005 and maybe we can finally overcome that aura!

Ah, the final stage of introspection finally arrived at after the latest international humiliation.

<applies blinkers>

We aren't that far behind, honest!



We can beat the Aussies.

We can and do beat the Kiwis (at home, anyway).

It's all good.

When does SL kick off?

we are of course all suckers...

one more round?

I personally don't think we're as Far off the Australians. They were nothing particularly special this tournament.what they are light years ahead of us in is basic rugby skills, passing from dummy half and along the line the ball goes where it's supposed. To our basic rugby skills are terrible and until they improve we stand little chance of beating them

Back in topic I don't think watkins had a terrible tournament but also don't think he should necessarily been in the squad to sta with.

I don't know if it's the passing per se that's better. One thing I've noticed with the Aussies in this 4 Nations and during the WCC back in Feb, when they attack the entire line moves on both sides of the field. Every single player is exactly where they need to be and ready to be an option. There's not 2 or 3 of them stood out the back having a rest, they're all an option and they all move forward with the ball carrier ready to receive.
Obviously Thurston is top class but it doesn't half make your job easier when you've got 3 or 4 passing options who are moving and running the right lines virtually every play.

I believe that their accuracy of passing is phenomenal, as an example not to single him out but watkins at dummy half the ball was up by receiving players shoulders a lot of the time, causing a moments hesitation which killed momentum. The occasional time it's not so bad but when it's persistent it's having huge effect.

Look to super league and the amount of times where players are having to readjust to gather the ball on a regular drilled play it's inexcusable that professional elite athletes can barely put a good pass in.

This could be down to training or composure I don't know

One thing I may get shot down for saying is that maybe we lacked a player like hock, the Australians hated playing against him they were to a degree scared of him.n his aggression, it could have been worth a punt on throwing him on for ten fifteen minutes to cause some mayhem!!!

He was anonymous again last night.

No s**t sherlock! Only been mentioned on here a million times over the last 24hrs but thanks for pointing it out anyway, very observant of you

what centre could shine with this shower of ? no quick ball, no quality ball, nobody putting him through gaps, no dummy runners.