Did he get a pass? At least he didn't knock on with no pressure on first tackle like Hall...and Peacock is making a habit of the same knocking on under no pressure.

On present form you're gonna steamroller us next week....just make sure you go on wipe the smirk of Wane's face in the GF. Big Earl deserves his medal

I don't think that was the case this year (last year definitely). I can't for a second believe the likes of Peacock and Sinfield don't want their last 80 mins of rugby to be at Old Trafford and winning there.

But for all the will in the world of wanting to win all 3, if the bodies and minds are just too tired then you're fighting a losing battle if you're coming up against good and fresher teams.

Watkins didn't look fit from the start. Seemed like a strange decision to bring him back tonight when he could have had another weeks rest at least.

I think you also have to look at how the tries were scored. Rhino's were either from kicks or barging over from close range. Tigers weren't. Not long ago the roles would have been reversed.

How did those breaks come about, though? They just ran through the string vest defensive line. Matt Cook's break was one of the worst defensive efforts I've seen from us in a long time.

don't be having a go at brian. he's the best coach ever don't you know

Cas were deservedly winners they wanted it more and played the better RL yea i thought Child was abysmal especially in the first half but we got what we deserved.
Once again our "Leaders" went missing when it was going wrong as did the Coach with his bizarre rotations this isn't a blip it's history repeating itself and we are running out of games/ideas to turn it around.
Our Pack were shot not helped by picking S.Ward on one leg ( who still had a decent game imo but was clearly struggling at times) also keeping Delaney on when he was ed after 15 minutes and the same with JP ,Cuthbo and Garbutt who were poorly managed imo.
Watkins wasn't fit but none of our backs got any decent ball and when Sinfield went off at 16-16 we were rudderless.
Not sure how we'll look squad wise next week but less "we'll fix it up" in the YEP and actually doing it on the pitch is needed that's 3 losses on the bounce and during the last 2 at least we've been awful ,lacking energy and any kind of idea with or without the ball that's not a blip that's a rut.

What? you mean the try of the season according to Sky's finest?

Absolutely - Loiner thinks he can actually walk on the surface of the River Aire down at Kirkstall!!

Hopefully some good will come of this and GH will insist on a quality assistant coach that will keep McDermott on his toes.

For the same thing to happen two seasons in a row suggested a coaching flaw - the lack of depth in the squad caused by the inability to develop young players to the correct standard also suggests a coaching issue.

Aye, that good he doesn't even need a full 17. Now that tvoc is back for a read perhaps he could tell us how many times we have done this now and what the results were each time?

Leeds forwards looked completely gassed last night (and for the last couple of weeks) and he chooses to leave one on the bench again. It makes no sense at all, but no doubt Juan will be along any minute to tell us that Walters isn't ready and shouldn't have played anyway so Brian was right...

It certainly looks like our forwards are shot at the moment. Agree bizzare sub policy again last night. Got to be a big worry going into a game with the form team at the moment in hudds and their pack

To me last week leeds look disinterested, as if they were saving themselves for the run in. Last night they looked like they really wanted it, but just could not perform. This is what concerns me most.

Southstander's game of "When we win it's the players, when we lose it's the coach" is back in full swing I see.

Not entirely sure what the coach was supposed to do for each 40 minute period, given that whoever he put on the pitch was dropping ball, missing tackles, failing to even get off the ground twice to contest kicks (yes, I'm looking at you Mr Lance Todd Trophy winner).

Many of that side look physically and mentally shot. It's been a longer than previous year (36 games if you make it to both finals) with no breaks in it for mid-season representative games where you can re-charge the batteries. The absence of any easy games at the back end of the season means that from Wembley onwards you've got a string of miniature Cup finals to get yourself up for, and it looks like some towels are already on beaches admiring their achievements.

Coaches can shout and scream and implore as much as they like, but once the players cross the line it's up to them to perform. To not do it once is excusable. Twice is worrying. Three times starts to look like a pattern.

Carnegie must be wondering what they're getting in Sinfield by the way. He's going to need a very long rest at the end of the season before I'd even consider putting him back on the field.

obviously the players have a big share in the blame, but to say that the coach can do nothing to influence the game once the players are on the pitch is nonsense.
He controls when the subs go on, where they go on. who they go on for and whether they go on at all. LAst night it was 50mins (and us 12 points down) that Singleton and Leuluai first got on. Not surprising that we got busted up the middle. Walters sat on the bench even though the other forwards will have hardly had a break. Proper rests for Peacock, GArbutt and Cuthbertson and the breaks through the middle would have been much less frequent.

This old rubbish again? really? The coach has had plenty of plaudits this year about the way we play. It is completely and utter rubbish to say what can the coach do. The coach selects the side, the solution for hooker has not been resolved, is that the players fault? the coach determines when subs are made, the forwards were shattered, is that the players fault that he held Kylie and Singleton back to the second half?

He might not well be able to sort missing tackles out on the day, but he could have selected a suitable option to defend the middle of the park in the first place. It's not like it is one game is it?




Yes the do look physically shot, yet four weeks back they looked perfectly sprightly. Who is responsible for them over those four weeks? You blame the players, but see nothing in the man who selects them?




If you can not get your body moving because of fatigue, then you can not get it moving. Just selecting them, doesn't mean it is going to happen. The players do not select themselves. The players do not say "hey lets not bother with an hooker defending, we can do it all in the forwards".





So it is now just down to the one player? you expect him to excel in that set up of disjointed positions and fatigued players? By the way it is Union, second division union, Sinfield could play on one leg and with one arm and he will still excel at with lot.

What an excellent job of completely misreading what I said. Yes, it's entirely down to Sinfield. That's completely the point I was making, even when I was criticising Briscoe's attempts under the high ball, it was entirely down to Sinfield.

And clearly, you don't watch much Championship rugby union. It may be a step down in pace from the Premiership, but it's still very physical even in the back division. For a 35 year old bloke who has struggled with injuries it's going to be a significant challenge, and going into it off the back of an intense Super 8s campaign and playoff(s) is going to represent a real struggle for him.

He's going to need a couple of weeks away on a beach somewhere to recharge the batteries, as all players do at the end of the year. Otherwise by the time it gets to April he'll have played 14 months in a row and I don't think his body or brain are capable of doing that.

Personally, couldn't give a stuff if Sinfield is burnt out or not once he finishes with us. He could have a stinker of a Union career for all i care, Wouldn't change his legacy and standing at Headingley whatever happens, as long as he gets himself right for the next few weeks as without him we can certainly kiss goodbye to whatever chances we have of winning the Title which already look slim.

Logical summary which in addition to our growing list of key players missing with injuries are the real factors that have turned our season upside down. But logic must never get in the way of a cheap shot at the coach for the usual suspects.

What is clear to me is that the Cup Final has to be moved well away from the the super 8's otherwise it is way too much of a handicap for the finalists. Also IMO there are now too many games as even the other super 8 contenders who have had a week off (or 2) but have also shown signs of mental and physical fatigue. I fear the top 4 playoffs could be one sided affairs if a couple of decisions given to one side shift momentum as the other side may not have enough left to make a fightback.

Maybe the time has come to ditch the Magic Weekend altogether or perhaps as a league affair and play a full round of Cup games instead. But something should be done to reduce the number of fixtures or increase the cap to allow bigger squads because clearly there is a limit to the length of time the players can keep up their performances. I believe it to be more a mental exhaustion than a physical one that has seen experienced and motivated players have their form drop so dramatically.

I fully agree regarding moving the final but for me collapsing two years in a runs much deeper than one extra game to anyone else. the final has little do do with the form

Well hear I am. Do you really think that Walters would have made any difference at all? The whole side is mentally shot apart from perhaps Ward, Cuthbertson, Moon and Lilley. The only reason Walters was on the bench was because there was no one else - check out our injuries. Had we played the juniors would they have really coped better against a very good Cas side on the night.

I would have more respect for your comments if you posted as often with praise for the coach during our long successful period and not just popping up with the negative stuff when things have turned sour. We have been league leaders for the majority of the season, we have won the Cup but the new format is just one step too far mentally for the players. No amount of tinkering with junior players would have stopped the missed tackles of the regular players.

You underestimate the mental and emotional effect of Wembley and the recovery time required on top of the injuries two years running. As AG has pointed out this year after the Cup Final we went head to head with a top 4 rival fresh from a week off then a tough away fixture in France followed by a short turn around for a care free Cas in better form after their slump. All must win games for our goal of the LLT and with playoff pressures.

Form and momentum go hand in hand and obviously for the players it was three steps too far and IMO it was more a mental exhaustion than physical as we were just not playing the defensive patterns that we have done all season. I will be amazed if we can turn it around now but who knows with this group they certainly have the motivation with 3 legends moving on, so it is not a lack of that.

Firstly I post when I do out of choice and work commitments, not that it's relevant. Regarding Walters, yes he would have made a difference, he would have given a couple of completely knackered back rowers a 20 minute rest and would have been at least as useful as they were given their tired performances. Delaney n particular has been busted for as long as I can remember and a break of 20 mins old have meant he would have been more effective when on the field.

McDermott has done lots right this season, he has promoted an entreprising way of playing which has been good to watch, but that doesn't excuse him from warranted criticism of making the same old errors time and time again. Like the players he's not perfect but is immune to criticism in your eyes.

Its not the loss of one player though is it? That is the straw breaking the camels back. We currently have 3 injured pivots. THat affects our creativity.

We are missing 2 of our biggest attacking threats in Watkins and Burrow. Although watkins was there in body, he had no impact on the game, and clearly not fit.

We are missing 2 of our best middle tacklers in JJB and Aiton.

We have fringe forwards like Achurch and Keinhorst out.

There is clearly some double counting in there, but thats Aiton, Burrow, Sutcliffe, JJB, Achurch (permanantly), Keinhorst and Watkins all out. There is only so far you can flex within your squad. More backs injured could have been coped with better with Handley well established this season and Goulding being around and not really able to contribute.

Unfortunately at the moment we are witnessing a team imploding before our eyes.
Tired and jaded with key players not performing, Ablet is out of sorts, time seems to have caught up with JP.
Our defence was porous all night, every time cas attacked we looked likely to concede points. As for leaving Walters on the bench . Can't fathom that out ,which ever way I think about it.
Quite obviously we are suffering injuries and loss of form at the wrong end of the season.
We could have done with JJB last night he would have got stuck in. I also think the loss of sutcliffe has hit us hard.
The lad was playing well, his omission has limited our three quarter permutations.
Who knows we may have in us one supreme effort to get old trafford. Can't see us winning at the Giants. So the supreme effort will be away from home.
Finally, full credit to cas they came and played some good rugby. What Powell has done this season is first class. More so when he lost the services of carney.

Walters is only there because of our serious injury list to key players. Last week he made 6 tackles and 3 misses. So why do you think he would have plugged a gap? Also IMO our players are mentally knackered and not physically, so a 20 minute rest on the bench will not cure that.

I have no problem with positive criticism but you always blame the coach even when it is the players that make the errors and mistakes. Mac has shown he can motivate and he can make a good game plan and he can get the team to play attractive rugby and he can get the team to play to good defensive patterns. So do you think he prepared them differently in the last 3 weeks? Do you think he told them to take it easy in the middle of the field? did he tell McGuire to lose his cool? or Sinfield to get injured? Of course you don't.

So take into consideration the difficult situation the coach finds himself in when the team and individual form collapses and except that a bit of tinkering with the bench for 20 minutes would not have made any difference as the malaise has spread throughout the side. I do not have the answer (other than hypnosis

) and I guess neither does Mac or indeed anyone on here.