I was at the game yesterday, and Lawes had a great game, not just the tackles he did make, but how Australia were forced to go away from him.

Union is more successful because Union has more money off the field and a better profile for businesses who want to sponsor the game.
The governing body helps the amateurs out a hell of a lot too.

Contrast that with BARLA who are constantly bickering, the SL clubs with their self interest, the NRL with its self interest, the RLIF not really giving a toss about any country but the top 5 international sides.

RU is well organised, generally cohesive and well financed.
RL is insular, short sighted and self interested and has sponsors like Barry Plumbing Merchants for the top clubs.

Yep, and the only way to change that is through expanding the game to other areas and through internationals.

problem is, no one wants to watch it in there areas, london, abject failure, wales failure, france could be a second team, a franchise in cumbria would be attractive but teams are to far apart, where do you suggest this expansion takes place?

Where do you think expansion should take place? Into areas ready for it. It's already taking place with the teams in C1. I think places like Manchester, Sheffield, Nottingham and Wales would be able to support a team if done properly and given the proper backing.

I don't know why a franchise in Cumbria would be attractive. There are far more attractive areas that have the potential to significantly increase the sport's profile, both to supporters and sponsors. The alternative is to stick with what we've got. Which will slowly wither to a level around the same size as Ice Hockey in the UK.

30 years ago the idea of three regular season NFL games selling out Wembley would have been laughable.

It's a good job the NFL didn't take that attitude to expansion.

Interest in the game from a playing perspective is at an all-time high in non-heartland areas. It's going to be a slow process to grow that into enough interest to run a semi-pro club, but it's definitely possible.

But you were not asked a question.....remember

Sam Burgess does not seem the sort to seek out a quiet life. He seems an honest lad and I think he genuinely wants to test himself on the bigger international stage. As a bonus in Union he will earn far more than league and if successful at international level he will earn mega money with off field deals.

He is starting in the centres which is where he is likely to play for England, however I am more and more coming round to the point of view of the intelligent and likeable Mike Ford who believes Sam will be better suited to, and will prefer to be in, the pack where he will be more involved. Sam is an intelligent player and can pick up enough Union technicalities to be a devastating asset even if only coming on from the bench. His massive pluses will more than outweigh any errors and mistakes made through Union inexperience.

This is where you and I have to disagree. I believe that the major motivating factor to Sam's code switch was financial and not because he needs to test himself or better his skill set.

Look at the evidence - Sam was living and playing with all of his brothers in a fantastic city that averages 240 days of sun a year, for currently the best team in the NRL. He was earning a decant wage, had a Hollywood A-lister as his bessie and quite a high public profile. He was an England international and touted as one of (if not THE) best players in the world.

He's traded that for living in Bath on his own, hardly known in RU with the 'chance' of playing internationally, but for a bucket load of cash - much more than he could ever earn playing RL.

wrong, thirty years ago i watched pre season NFL games at wembley and three games would not have been laughable, league has nowhere to expand too, its a shame as its a great game but the truth is its ultra low profile everywhere in the uk except its heartland, even there the crowds are small, the two biggest teams in SL get smaller crowds that their lower league football namesakes, tell me where you think a SL teem would work

Not sure what the relevance is of Wigan & Leeds getting smaller crowds than their football counterparts. All that shows is the popularity of football as no sport gets the crowds that football does. So by that argument no sport can ever expand in this country.

There are loads of places RL can expand into, just look at Championship 1. Manchester, Sheffield, Nottingham, Wales, Newcastle amongst others are all potentials where the sports market has plenty of space for an RL club in the future.

To suggest nowhere other than the current RL heartlands would be interested in RL is just plain daft and ignores the big increases in participation in some areas in recent years.

He took a pay cut to go to Bath, from listening to him he didn't enjoy Sydney as much as think he should have. The top RL players in the NRL make mega money - Sam will not be able to earn more more playing RU in England than he would RL in Australia.

If anything Burgess 'enjoyed' himself too much last year. He wasn't as good on the field, was a regular on the Footy Show and in the gossip columns in Sydney. He started to get a lot of stick, particularly after the infamous squirrel-grip, which seemed to genuinely take him by surprise.

This year he cut out virtually all media activity and knuckled down to playing. As a result he was far more effective on the field.

Sadly I think the high profile of RU internationals and playing on the big stage more often was a big part of his decision to move. Had Souths not won the premiership I'd be certain he'd go back. Whether he does or not now depends on how successful he is in RU.

I'm not sure how much money has to do with it right now, although the potential to make huge amounts in RU if he succeeds is greater than anything he could get in RL.

It will be interesting to see what happens with Luke at Souths now. He was a fringe player last year, and with Sam gone the whole 'clan Burgess' deal has been weakened a lot.

The potential for money is far greater in Union currently for English players certainly. He's on apparently £250k at Bath but could boost that to around £500k just with England appearance money, never mind sponsor deals etc. And let's face it, he could play like Joe Vickery but he's going to play for England.

I was at the first American Bowl at Wembley, a pre-season game between the then reigning Superbowl champion Chicago Bears and the Dallas Cowboys.

They played IIRC seven of them, and at no point did the idea of playing a regular season game at Wembley even look remotely realistic. Indeed the NFL took the American Bowl games away after 1993 and focused more on Japan, Canada and Mexico.

They tried to run a franchise out of Wembley in the old World League/NFL Europe. It failed. Pretty miserably. In the end the NFL virtually gave up on expansion into Europe until fairly recently.

If you had said in 1986, or in 1993, or when the Monarchs were around, that NFL franchises would be willing to give up regular season home games to move them to Wembley very few people would have taken you seriously.

A SL team would work anywhere, providing you grow it, market it and develop it properly in the way the NFL have done. What doesn't work is dropping a ready made team into an area and expecting fans to take it to their bosom, then complaining when they're not immediately drawing 10k crowds and winning every week.

So true. The wales expansion was a farce. There certainly is scope for exclamation and championship 1 features as many expansion locations as heart land teams. It's still a massive step up to the next level but is certainly more sustainable

The NFL are only playing three games a year at Wembley not a whole season the dynamic is very different. Easier to market an exclusive - an example would be Bolt running a one off meeting. If the NFL were playing at Wembley every week I doubt the attendances would anywhere near as large. If you want to see elite American Football live this is your only opportunity, the same could not be said of a new RL franchise

Don't really know how seriously the NFL are taking expansion into the UK when they don't even know where it is???

there is only 8 home games in an NFL season, so hardly every week 8 games between september and january is easily sustainable with crowds of over 60000

Looks like Sam might be fast tracked into the England set up sooner than we thought.
Clearly made a good impression in his first game then.

Just saw Stuart Lancaster's comments, really hard to believe that the RFU just gave him another 4 year contract.

Sam has a lot to live up to. Apparently Courtney Lawes was taken off “after making an astonishing 12 tackles in an hour”.

As I said on previous page Lawes had an outstanding game on Saturday, I was there. The number of tackles is irrelevant, as more relevant was the change of direction from the Aussies to keep away from him.

What is also more relevant, is that I believe in Union, the stats for tackling are recorded as the first man in, rather than also including the 2nd and 3rd man, like league. I am not a defender of Union, far from it, but the comparison of tackles if made to league, should be a fair reflection.

Well we have the uneven fixture in the 2nd half of the league...there's our opportunity to take the game on the road.
Even double head them and play in areas like Birmingham/Nottingham/Leicester/Bristol/Newcastle