I have no complaints about our penalty count being so high, our discipline was very poor (and unnecessary because Catalans were poor and it was the only reason the game was tight), and most of the calls against us were correct (by Thaler, the Video Ref decision was rubbish).

That Catalans only had about 3 or 4 given against them after 60 mins wasn't right though. He seemed to give us a few at the end once the result was out of doubt almost as a token gesture.

If we had better discipline then we would've probably been 20+ points clear going into the last 20 mins, instead we were level and fighting for the result.

Quote ="MattyLeeds"Interesting interview with Brian Mac - www.therhinos.co.uk/matchdaytv/? ... VoWuZNOSSo'" Isn't it usually the case when someone says 'this isn't a whinge' then what follows almost certainly will be. The penalty counts for Leeds' last five visits to Perpignan have been: =#0000BFawarded to Leeds, =#FF0000against 5-Apr-10 ..... Won 24 - 34 ..... Stade Aime Giral ...... Ben Thaler ..... =#0000BF7- =#FF00007 10-Jul-11 ..... Lost 38 - 18 ..... Stade Gilbert Brutus ..... James Child ..... =#0000BF4 - =#FF000012 18-Aug-12 ..... Lost 38 - 34 ..... Stade Gilbert Brutus ..... James Child ..... =#0000BF7- =#FF00007 21-Sep-12 ..... Won 20 - 27 .....Stade Gilbert Brutus ..... Ben Thaler ..... =#0000BF7 - =#FF000015 1-Apr-13 ..... Won 12 - 27 ..... Stade Gilbert Brutus ..... Ben Thaler ..... =#0000BF8 - =#FF000016 Two even, three blow-outs. It'll be interesting to hear some specifics from McDermott (in the fullness of time) as to which of the penalties conceded he's unhappy with. In August 2010 Leeds had a penalty count 15 - 6 in their favour V Les Catalans at Headingley, so it might be naive to imagine it's always one way traffic against Leeds.

Quote ="MattyLeeds"Interesting interview with Brian Mac - www.therhinos.co.uk/matchdaytv/? ... VoWuZNOSSo'" Isn't it usually the case when someone says 'this isn't a whinge' then what follows almost certainly will be. The penalty counts for Leeds' last five visits to Perpignan have been: =#0000BFawarded to Leeds, =#FF0000against 5-Apr-10 ..... Won 24 - 34 ..... Stade Aime Giral ...... Ben Thaler ..... =#0000BF7- =#FF00007 10-Jul-11 ..... Lost 38 - 18 ..... Stade Gilbert Brutus ..... James Child ..... =#0000BF4 - =#FF000012 18-Aug-12 ..... Lost 38 - 34 ..... Stade Gilbert Brutus ..... James Child ..... =#0000BF7- =#FF00007 21-Sep-12 ..... Won 20 - 27 .....Stade Gilbert Brutus ..... Ben Thaler ..... =#0000BF7 - =#FF000015 1-Apr-13 ..... Won 12 - 27 ..... Stade Gilbert Brutus ..... Ben Thaler ..... =#0000BF8 - =#FF000016 Two even, three blow-outs. It'll be interesting to hear some specifics from McDermott (in the fullness of time) as to which of the penalties conceded he's unhappy with. In August 2010 Leeds had a penalty count 15 - 6 in their favour V Les Catalans at Headingley, so it might be naive to imagine it's always one way traffic against Leeds.

TVOC-I may be wrong but the impression i got from Mc's interview was that he wasn't happy with the penalties we didn't get rather than what we wee penalised for.

I'd pretty much agree with this. I thought our players looked a bit tired and frustrated. But although we were niggly, our discipline in defence was sufficiently good to win. It would have been an easy game to lose last night but overall we were pretty much in control, barring the few minutes after Bailey's departure.

On the penalties I think Thaler and his assistants got most of the ball stripping calls wrong for both teams, but that's just one of those frustrating things that can happen when you have a wet ball and someone who wants to get the maximum use out of his whistle.

The penalties that really hack me off are the ones where good defence is penalised. From the kick off second half Achurch puts in a massive hit and Leeds piled in and drove the runner back - Thaler calls held, then gives the Leeds players no leeway to stop themselves. You can't go from full on driving to complete stop in the time he gave them. Then straight after, from that penalty, another dominant tackle and the player with the ball throwing himself around and he blows up again. So we had two great defensive efforts from Leeds penalised - total bull.
The flipside is that Cats are allowed an age to lie on in the tackle and slow Leeds PTB down because they do it at every tackle, and as I've said before refs penalise unusualy long PTB's, so if you are consistantly slow you get away with it.

Interesting after match comments from BMD when interviewed on the the pitch regarding why he thought Cats had such big penalty count advantage. The Sky boys thought he was looking at the crowd, I think he was looking up at their commentry box.

Agree with those 2 penalties in particular as I mentioned above.

After sneaking behind, going down to 12 and having limited men, the turnaround was very impressive. Leeds kept their cool in a game where that was hardly on display much. When McShane pounced over and we regained the lead for the Catalans to attempt a short kick-off was a shortcut with 10 minutes to play. They failed, handed position over to us and we used it to seal the game. Their 2 trys came from being at the right end of the field for long enough they should have been more patient.

Quite right. I am sure Mac will not be too happy at the number of penalties against us but penalty stats do not tell the story. All too often we see a referee go after just one side (and not just against Leeds) at crucial times in a game that effects the result. Perhaps aware of the penalty count they then try to balance the count at a time when it cannot effect the result. So although the penalty account in the stats seems fair in practice it was not.

Many of the penalties going against Leeds were justified but it could be fairly said that the ref was more than tolerant and let similar ones go unpenalised against the Catalans. It was a similar story last week against Bradford.

Our game is suffering from a lack of quality from the referees. It seemed better when they were not fully professional.

You sound like Ian Millward.

I'm sure you're more well behaved with cheerleaders though

In all fairness to McDermott I think people and inparticular the sky commentary team, are looking too much into yesterdays game. McDermott made the exact comments over the weekend, before the match took place.

He was proved correct as it happens. But he is no phsycic, so surely there is something more than just coincidence in what he said.

He has said it previously before the weekend too.

The Sky team over analyse everything. They are idiots too. There was one point yesterday where Stevo said something along the lines of, I cant understand why Catalan keep kicking to Hall when Vickery hasn't dropped back. 1st of all, since about 2005, Leeds always keep the winger on the side the ball is at in the line and drop the full back and the opposite winger back to cover half the field each. Secondly, it further cements the point that he is stuck in the 70s and hasn't moved on.

Whilst I tend to agree with your first point, I'm less sure about the second. I can't remember any time in the history of Rugby League when a majority of fans or coaches were happy with the overall standard of refereeing.

I'd like to hear specifics but i suspect it's more than just numbers. I suspect it's about inconsistency. Two things stood out to me. Bailey's first half challenge was identical to the challenge Achurch suffered. One is a penalty, the other isn't.

Bailey's second half challenge looked identical to the late challenge on Burrow in the 1st half. One is a penalty, the other is a red card.

I think most people on this thread are in agreement ,we just want from our referees consistency . At headingley the other week peacock was rightly penalized for not playing the ball with his foot,since then I lost count of the times I seen the same thing happen and go unpunished .

Just for the record I think Thaler is one of if not the best referee in super league.

A good referee is only as good as his TJ's. I know the man in the middle makes the calls, but if you have a couple of good guys running the line, your job is 10 times easier.

And if you have the two that were on duty yesterday in the south of France, ten times harder.

Is it time that where there is a stoppage in play the VR can advise the man in the middle when he's got a call wrong?

I'm thinking here about incidents like the Sinfield knock on from the short drop out on Thursday, or the whack on the jaw Achurch took from Taia yesterday. The game had stopped, it was pretty obvious from first look at the video what the situation actually was so why not correct it and get the right decision made.

Fans, players and coaches just want officials to get decisions right. Why not help them out where you can?

In Australia, the VR tells the ref if there's been a high shot they have missed if it causes a stoppage. It happens on a weekly basis. If the technology is there I agree with using it but only if the main ref asks for the advice, not the VR having a whisper in his ear all the time.

That's fine, but you're reliant on the on-field referee having an ego small enough that allows them to actually seek advice. Not sure that would work with some of ours.

Interesting that two NRL refs have been stood down for missing an alleged shoulder charge by Danny Buderus which has left Blake Ferguson with a suspected fractured eye socket, and a tackle in the air in the same game. Compare that to how much it takes to get stood down in SL, which based on the evidence appears to require allowing teams to score twice on the seventh tackle.

Stepping away from the whole refereeing issue for a moment, the most pleasing aspect for me is that we have taken 7 points out of 8 in the games against Wigan, Saints, Bradford and Catalans, and we should really have got all 8. The Leeds team of a year ago would probably have lost all of these games (granted, the Huddersfield result was in and amongst these games, but losing badly to them at home is our new yearly tradition it seems). The difference in our defence in the space of a year is very impressive.

I suspect the pool of refs is larger in the NRL so they can afford to drop those that underperform. Over here we only have 7 fulltimers IIRC so the guys you bring up from the lower leagues have had less time to prepare and are unlikely to be much better than those they replace. We're stuck with what we've got.

I don't think there's a short term fix to refereeing standards. Using the video ref sounds ok in theory but you run the risk of the video ref getting too involved and the man in the middle becoming superfluous or too much being "sent upstairs" for an opinion. You would still get mistakes, even when the video ref has a good view.

In the longer term we need to attract more people into the job, support and train them properly and protect them from abuse so that they don't give up along the way.

I agree.and we were only well beaten by Hudds. by a half back with a quality kicking game exposing a rookie winger as they were not busting us down the middle.

The intensity as a whole seems to have returned so far to our weekly round performances and the defence has been very good.just improve our discipline a notch and we will be a tough team to beat.

Careful. Remember I have said nothing against your hero for a while

I've said it for a while AG re-VR's getting involved he could also have told Thaler Bailey did not make contact with Bosc's head.
From my own pov i'd rather they get it right whilst using the VR or the VR having a word than some of the awful calls we are witnessing.
Also on a few occassions i've seen teams plead with Bentham and Silverw##k to go to the VR and they have yet when others have asked its been ignored.
Again it makes you wonder what they do during the week because they make the same bad calls time and time again its about time they were "coached2 and faced some sort of comeback for p!$$ poor efforts.

Fire at will. Free country. Opinions are what we're here for.