I believe you are suggesting his Defensive Game is poor. If Senior had such a poor Defensive Game, why was he Leeds Rhinos Left Centre for 12yrs and Great Britain/England Left Centre for 10yrs?

At the top of his game he was a pretty strong defender, although I'm sure Keith Swiftcorn will point to some international performances using the words turnstile. As he aged, and his mobilty went with it I think he became less and less of a strong defender, and more and more of a weak link. At times last year that left channel was wide open, though I acknowledge that it wont have all been down to him. Centre is a hard place to defend requiring speed, strength, agility & reading of the game. on the evidence of last season he only had 2 of those in enough quantity

No McGuire. He's not rated as a defender by people who only see what they want to see, but he covers left side at the moment and makes sure Hardaker doesn't look like the wandering defensive gap he actually is. I guess Burrow would have done that in McGuire's absence last year, but as he was playing off the bench "hooker/half back/whatever" he wouldn't have been there either. Senior made around 25 tackles a game and regularly handed the likes of Gidley his 'arris.

I am a massive fan of Senior.
But to think he can do a job after being out of the game for so many months and at his age is asking a great deal.
He had many a defensive lapse towards the end of his career and was being exposed by the opposition too often for my liking.
Whilst he may have handed Gidley his arris that was well in the past and I doubt for one minute he could emulate those strengths now.
I would love to see him do it as there isn`t a centre in the game like him and I would gladly eat my words.
But for me it is sadly time to move on and let Keith go to pastures new.
The only thing Senior could offer now is a decent pass to his winger and maybe he needs to have a word with Hadaker about that skill.

Some might say that in itself is enough, given the quality of Hall that is criminally being wasted at the moment.

You could be right mate. But his pace and defence might outweigh that skill.
Don`t get me wrong I would love to see Senior in a Rhinos shirt again playing like we know he can. But my fear is he wont be anything like my memory thinks he is.
If Hardaker can learn to pass the ball then we might all be happier.

As has been stated in this thread many times what were the options at left centre for GB? The Aussies weren't exactly quaking in their boots at the thought of facing Keith.

Even Senior's most loyal supporters would admit his defence - especially in the last 2/3 seasons - his defence wasn't his strongest suit. Most are calling for his re-instatement because of the lack of any attacking threat on the left hand side not because of Keith's defensive qualities. I would not have him in the side, great player that he has been you have to move on at some point.

The Aussies rated Senior when he was at his peak. FWIW I always thought his reading of the game in defence at that level was poor, primarily from not playing against such high quality attack throughout his career - i.e. exactly the same problems every other SL player faces against Australia.

For this year I'd let Senior prove his fitness, and if he's good enough pick him. I personally doubt he'll crack it - at 36 he's on the physical downward path. He's not a prop where losing a slight edge of speed makes a lot of difference - where he plays and how he plays it could make him a far inferior player to what he was. But, as with tvoc, I think the guy deserves the chance to at least prove himself with Leeds, given his service to the club. What that doesn't mean is picking him regardless of form etc as probably happened in the past - in a selection sense he should be treated as if he were a kid trying to crack the first team.

I just don't understand why Hardaker is getting worse rather than better. The games that most worried me in terms of his development were the likes of Salford and Leigh where we won by cricket scores. The second half of both games were heaven-sent opportunities for BM to get the word to Hardaker to focus purely on setting up Hall for the remainder of the game, and not to worry about messing it up.

Part of the reason I raised this whole non-passing thing early in the season was because I can't recall seeing a centre who started off being unable/unwilling to pass developing into a really good winger's centre. Is it lack of ability or is Hardaker perhaps one of those players who simply can't play on the 'wrong' side of the field?

You would have thought passing from right to left would be easier for most players even Hardaker - unless he is left handed?

i just think he looked far more comfortable on the right. put ablett to the left and move him across

My son is right handed and spins it off his left hand, but he's 9, he can also pass off his righ hand, he just doesn't spin it yet. But he will.
Hardaker is a professional rugby player, he should be able to pass 5 yards to his right as easily as his left. The real difference is for long cut-out passes when there can be a difference from one side to the other due to the ability to spin, but I still can't understand why people trot out the argument about being able to pass better one way (usually left off the right hand) is an excuse as to why the ball doesn't go right as often as left. Any half decent rugby player can throw a pass right 10 yards right as easily as throwing one left. I would go as far as saying that if you don't pass as accurately off either hand then you shouldn't be at pro level at all.

Yup.

Is this the same Hardaker some people have been touting as a possible stand off in the future for us?

Not looking good for him in that position if he can't pass both ways is it......

Nope

....but there's still time I guess: he's still only young.

For now I'm def in the camp of (at the very least) moving him to Right Centre.

Hardaker still has a lot of developing and improvement in him for sure and will progress throughout the next few years



Senior as fantastic as he has been doesn't improve the 17 IMO so time to move on.

Hardaker is still very young,perhaps he has been overhyped which is not his fault.
Could his best position be full back?.

Full back might be Hardaker`s best position.
But if he is having problems passing to his winger or to anyone infact.
I am not sure what qualities he would bring to FB when joining the line to send a pass out wide to his winger like Webb does.
All we will see his ability to join the line and maybe break a tackle and go through to the try line himself.
There will be many times when the move breaks down due to him not breaking the defensive line.

Alot of OTT ramblings about Zak's passing ability.

He's very raw with alot of improvement to do. His rise has been quick and he's holding his own. No-one backs Zak more than himself, he's a cocky lad. Alot of these occasions where he doesn't pass comes from confidence to want to stride with the ball and bounce off and carry out these quick feeted breaks he makes look easy.

I'm sure he and the coaching staff are aware and alot of things come down to decision making, knowing when to look etc. The end result of how he will be moulded only time will tell. But he's doing alot right in the here-and now, let's not forget that.

Spot on Bloodbath.

Also making a pass decision is far harder at centre than at full back, so the comparison isn't valid really.
People have complained about the lack of youngsters being given a shot in the first team, well Hardaker is a youngster being given a shot in the first team. For some bizarre reason people seem to expect him to be a world class centre in his first real season playing there.
We have some very strange fans.

Spot on bloodbath.

Just in contrast as we do have the other threads going on about Senior. But up until his injury last season Senior only had 3 assists and 4 tries. Hardacker has 2 assists and 11 tries. I honestly can't see too much what he is doing wrong.

Are you looking at a Head-2-Head between Hardaker & Senior over the 2011 Season?

Senior wasn't great in this area early on in his career, Atkins has improved out of sight in this area since going to Warrington. Chris Bridge is very good at put his winger away and he only started playing the position a few years ago. Even Chev Walker improved massivly in this area. However I'm not sure McDermott and Lowes are good enough to help Hardaker improve this part of his game. To be fair to Hardaker he seems to be carrying an injury I noticed his hamstring has been strapped for the last few games. He also seems to be naturally left footed/handed so it might be a good idea to move him to left centre where he may find it easier to get on the outside of his man using his left foot step.

That's why I'm suggesting, maybe, bring Senior in to Mentor him and fill in where needed.

Get real. Senior wants the position for himself, not to help some kid do him out of a (non-existent) 2 year contract.

Hardaker will be moved to Fullback and Senior will move to Centre.