That would of sufficed in reply, it really would.

I think it's an archived piece that gets reproduced at some point each season which is why it bears little or no resemblance to actual current events.



I think I understand your problem now. The actual game was played on Sunday rather than the fantasy game who were imagining on Monday.



I think Union players are exceptional at the latter of those skills. Pretty good with the hip, hip hoorays as well.

And on a serious note Rugby League is not Rugby Union and the vast majority of Rugby League fans would probably prefer it to stay that way.

From what I've seen I suspect McGuire could be a far better stand off than he sometimes appears. It's probably no coincidence that he can look a bit clueless playing for England when he basically stays on the one side all the time for Leeds and isn't the main decision maker. Even without changing anything else I do think he could run a straighter line even if he does stay on the right, and by doing so keep more options open.

My feeling is that close to the line Sinfield may be better out wide, with Burrow/McGuire more central, as they would be against forwards, and Sinfield is probably the only one of the three capable of taking a tackle and getting the ball away without being smashed in the process.

I do agree that hooker makes a difference as well, but Sts play is not all down to Cunningham. It will be interesting to see what difference Buderus makes if he gets fully fit and integrated in the team.

Webb held him up on the inside, la.

And lands straight on his front, allowing Roby or Cunningham an extremely quick play the ball, from which they cause havoc, Roby especially. Trust me Union and League are two very different games, and tackling technique is perhaps at the forefront of the differences.

Quote ="Tyke's/Rhinos No. 1 Fan"I'd bet if we had some stats Burrow (who has no choice but to tackle low) is our best tackle completer.'" www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2009 Keith Senior 77 tackles 2 Missed tackles Rob Burrow 45 Tackles 9 Missed tackles It was close though.

Quote ="Tyke's/Rhinos No. 1 Fan"I'd bet if we had some stats Burrow (who has no choice but to tackle low) is our best tackle completer.'" www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2009 Keith Senior 77 tackles 2 Missed tackles Rob Burrow 45 Tackles 9 Missed tackles It was close though.

It's not a prejudice thanks, I've played and coached Union as well as League. They have their differences but in general the Union backs cannot run, pass or tackle as well their League counterparts. Which explains why a fat lad like me who would only be useful at prop in a League team was playing inside centre for York RU.


No it doesnt. You're mistaking the shape of the attacking line for people getting the ball stood still. Doesn't matter whether you're deep or flat if you get the ball stood still you're gonna have problems.


That may well be the problem, players shouldnt be catching it in the bread basket.
Im really starting to doubt whether you watched the game at all. Diskins distribution from acting half has always been a little dodgy, whereas I seriously doubt Buderus would have become NSW and Australia captain without being able to pass from acting half.


No he's not and no it doesn't. Are you seriously suggesting that its harder to offload a ball when someone is around your legs than around your upper body? And if thats true how come every RL side in England and Australia tackles high?


How many times is that? Hall was rubbish against Hull KR under the high ball but thats the only time I've noticed a problem this season and cant remember a particular problem last season.


Did i? I dont believe I've called union kick & clap. They are unskilled compared to their League counterparts.

Cheers for that I hadnt noticed all the kicking in Union games. The problem with your argument is that its a different game and these unskilled players who can do little else other than kick are kicking under different circumstances.
Sinfield's kicking in the last 2 Grand Finals has been better than most Union flyhalf's IMO.


No I wouldn't, but since you could only come up with 2, one of whom played RL and retired a decade ago then that would back up my assertion that in general Union backs are unskilled compared to League backs.

Its a shame that this has degenerated into a RL/Union boreathon.

Tykes points re passing and tackling are well made. On numerous occassions on Sunday the ball was slung out at varying heights in the general direction of a player, rather than to where the player actually was, causing us to check and loose momentum.

Its a fairly simple excercise. You attempt to pass to the guy's hands.

The first tackling lessons you learn in either codes is that you tackle around the legs, or drive your shoulder into the ribs. How many times in RL have you witnessed 2 or 3 guys standing upright, wrestling with an opposing player only for him to continue making yards forward, prior to slipping the ball out? Ali Lauatiti and David Soloman are perfect examples of players who can take advantage of poor technique.

Ping pong kicking in Union is boring, but Union backs appear to be way ahead in the length they can achieve , and the two 40/20's that Saints had against us shows the value of improving this facet of our game.

Perhaps if he'd stuck to that type of analysis he might have been taken more seriously. He didn't and so he wasn't.

The only thing he missed out was recycling, phases, a rolling maul and line outs.

totally right mate, plus we havent played well in both these games.

personaly i think the score lines in the last 2 games didnt really tell the full story but they are the scores non the less.

i have no doubt when we play well against saints we can beat em. both times saints have beat us this year 1 of their players had the best game they have ever had in a saints shirt.(flannery and wilkin) thats what they have needed to beat us. we havent performed to that level and thats what we need to do.

Spot on mate - don't get me wrong though, there are a couple of things we could do with improving on but no need to change our style of play at all.

nowhere close TVOC.

I accept the point about giving Roby/Cunningham etc. a quick potb from the tackle. But when the players go high and either a) fail to make the tackle, or b) latch on but lose 5 yards in making it costs us ground.

If our kicking length was better we'd have more options to attack. If every penalty within our half was being put onto the opposition 20, and every one within their half into the 5 metre, we'd score more points as we'd have more sets on the opposition line. Kicking to touch and only making 10m isn't good enough.

I may have the wrong words, but i think we were too shallow a line to be effective on sunday. If the backs stand steeper it gives them 2-3 yards to accelerate before taking the ball at each pass. It also causes the opposition defence to bunch in the centre, giving space to the wingmen (as we saw when saints pulled a training ground move on us twice, using this exact technique).

The bread basket (I'm presuming we agree this is waist height) is exactly where a player should be taking it. Kneck/head high passes are what loses ground & costs us ball. There were several overcooked passes on sunday, and these need cutting out. Buderus wasn't the only one, but he seemed to me to be the main culprit.

I'd disagree that RU players are unskilled, the skills require are different. We as a team do not hinge arount McGuire, we have multipled playmakers who control the dynamics of the game. An RU standoff is the fulcrum of the side, so must be a lot less specialist in what he can do.

And you're even less close if you think I'm the one that's debating any of this with you.

I'm the one taking the p[iis[/is.

Bloody hell. Did it take you until the world cup to notice [ithat[/i? Saints fans have known it since he first joined the club. We don't care. Know why? He does everything else (bar kicking) fecking good. And how good has he been this season for us? He's been fantastic.

wellens is a real yard stick of how good the game is over here in terms of having a full skill set to get a game.

in the nrl he simply wouldnt get a game. they have 16 fullbacks better than him. and thats before you switch lockyer, ingles, hayne, gidley and perrit. over here he still looks like he could keep his international shirt!!



me and mi old man have just decided we are going to 2010 4 nations!! god help us if he's playing then

I think Gardner is the only one with good enough pace, although Gilmour seems quicker than Talau for me. Back in the day of Lyon, Albert, Sullivan, Quirk (ahem) we did have some pace but I agree with original poster that this is slowest in some time.

I remember a coupld of seasons back at Headingley when the game was close at half time (about 12-16?), but in the second half Leeds scored some fast long range tries (Lee Smith with two?) and despite him breaking the line near to his own twenty, we couldn't get near him.

My fear when playing Leeds in recent seasons is that you make a break and have too much pacy support (Burrow, McGuire, Senior, Smith) for us to catch all of them.

ok, forgetting the refs,which i would like to

lets look at tonight.

very little threat from the backs.
ablett is not, and will never be, a centre. the fact gibson was dropped and watkins on the wing means bluey doesn't rate them(with watkins it is at the moment, he will come good).

this begs the question why wasn't a centre signed? everyone could see we needed one except the people in charge it seems.

scruton was not replaced. i accept the club were innocent in the eastwood affair,but we are light in the forwards and it shows big time.

why did all the players have to lose weight. kylie has suffered big time. the power and strength have gone. other packs dominate us with ease.

our big strength has been pace in the backs. we rarely try to go wide,it is one man rugby or a diskin little pass inside.

we are predictale and easy to defend against,i don't know why so much was changed but it isn't working

Tonight again proved we have no plan B and at times not even a plan A.
We seem incapable of changing the tactics at any point in the game and end up playing panic rugby.
If the tactics don't change there wil be no Grand Final this year and again this proves all the s wrong who think we don't need new signings.

we needed signings. Letting Scruton go was a very bad move. Eastwood no one could have foreseen, but we need to accept they're not going to change their minds & sign someone.

Compare the current Saints wingers with Hunte, Sullivan, Albert etc.
Compare the current Saints centres with Newlove, Gibbs even Iro.

All the above could go the length of the field without much difficulty.

Currently, Saints' first team has only one player capable of that - Pryce.

You do know he was offered "top money" by bradford don't you??
He was alway's 3rd/4th choice and never a big earner in our structure so that was never gonna be the case that he stayed.

I didn't have a problem with him leaving. Its the fact that he doesn't seem to have been replaced. I know we signed Ambler but he's long way off the required standard. But then again most of the players are at the moment.

That's fair enough but we were never gonna match the deal bradford offered and even now he isn't worth it imo.

The team are lacking confidence and are suffering from the after effects of a second loss to Saints and out of 2 cups.

However I come back to the Style of play argument. Our style is now based around defence with little structured attacking plays and no plan B when things are not working. We are relying on Sinfield, Burrow, McGuire, Web or Senior to pull something out of the bag with individual flair and are leaving this until late in a game when it is too late.

We must return to a more positive attacking style with players looking to offload knowing there will be backed up on hand. Defence does not win matches. Without attack, the best defence can do is produce a draw. Saints are playing the best team rugby with great backing up and angles of running and most important quick play the balls. Our players take too long to play the ball with Peacock the worst offender.

Plus the fact most of the dummy runs and players running on to the ball with pace have been none existant thus far.

We have a decent squad but need a couple signings urgently. The preseason preparation does not look to have been good enough and the coaching seems to have been all on defence and none on attack. Early doors this 4 man tackling plan was working until we came up against saints but this plan has now tired out the whole team and we now have a defensive problem as well as no attack.

IMO attack is the best defence as you tire out the opposition and keep the points ticking over. We look devoid of any attacking moves and our game plan appears to be based on keeping the opposition from scoring and hope we get a penalty. Now plan that has obviously failed with 5 defeats out of 11 played not being good enough. There was a time when we could expect to outscore teams no matter how many they scored. Back to the drawing board Bluey