we need eastwood badly and a decent centre.

evidence?

Why do we need him badly? 4 out of 4. 34 points conceeded, and just 5 tries conceeded.
I dont think we really do need him that badly.

Attitudes like shownnin this thread go some way to explain why England / GB struggle to get a competitive team out in internationals.

I'd rather see Watkins tried, and we win no silverware, than sign another antipodean to fill the gap. The guy looks class to me, and we'll only get the best of him by giving him some top level experience. Doesn't have to be every game, but this kid needs to be playing regular.

People seem to forget that players like Burrow, McGuire, Diskin, Calderwood weren't ready when they started out, but they were given a chance and as they got more agme time they became more effective. The same needs to apply for Watkins, McShane, Gibson, Allan and any of the other lads we have in the acadamy

Hooker is two positions - one on the field one on the bench. When you start with a basic flaw in your "numbers" like this, the rest of your logic collapses like a pack of cards

The centre debate is a tricky one but I still stand by what Ive said for a long time. I think Watkins and Gibson are the future centres but I would have liked Leeds to have brought in an old head, done it all centre just to show the lads the ropes and also for back-up. Ive said it many times but what I'm trying to get at is along the lines of when we brought Connelly in to bring Mathers through. Mathers wasn't quite ready when we needed him so Connelly was brought in and showed him the ropes. he did and Mathers took the number 1 shirt off him.

However i think we has missed are chance as I cant think of any worthy centres that we could get right now. I still wonder whether we should have offered Talau a 1 year deal. Then again i think he got a longer deal from Salford which you cant argue him choosing.

Disagree, using Sam Burgess as an example. He got far too much exposure 2 years ago, heaps of expectancy placed on his shoulders (for both Bradford & GB) and the net result is he's a worse player for it. Watkins has a part to play this year, but not as first choice centre

He won't be when webb is back

Is he? I just thought the lad got injured?

the cases are completely different. Burgess is a forward and a class above anything that bradford have. As a result he was relied on, and took a lot on too early. He was in a GB shirt at the end of his first full season.

Watkins, although talented will not be relied upon this season. He should be allowed to gain time in the side, but at no point will he be first choice centre. I think it will rotate with him and Gibson, and maybe even Ablett. This way, he'll get a few starts, and a few sub appearances, and that will be bulked out with some acadamy appearances. If we signed a decent experienced centre then wakins and gibson would be sharing whatever time CentreX and Senior do not play. Won't be good for either party.

The good thing about our centre situation is that if Watkins is looking shattered, or out of his depth or fatigued, then we have Gibson to come in, and visa versa.

FWIW, when Mears had his injury problems, we didn't sign a new hooker, we trusted a young lad called Diskin, when Mullins didn't play, we filled his place with a young calderwood. Carroll/Walker, the list could go on.

Not that I am dissagreeing with you. But you have kind of contradicted your own argument here.

It is obvious that on each of the occassions above that the experience was there, and it was only as a necessity that the inexperienced youngster was used (experienced injured).

The current situation is not the same as that.

And when Diskin was injured which junior took his place?

The key man here is Keith Senior, when he plays Leeds have a goto man. When he doesn't (as unexpectedly) he hasn't in 2 from 5 Leeds don't have a threat at centre.

It really is too much to expect a 17 year old to do that job.

Watkins and Gibson are not front line centres. Senior is. The other jersey will be filled by a combination of Ablett, Watkins and Gibson. Not a million miles away from where we were last year but, actually, even better because Watkins is a year older and more experienced and Gibson getting nearer to full fitness.

Lets do that. I appreciate it doesn't suit your position but it's very relevant. We have a commitment to building the team around our own young players. That means we will have to accept scenarios where players need time to develop, where we may not have an Aussie or Kiwi international in every position. In some cases, like the next year or so whilst our Centres do (or don't) develop it may not be ideal but it's probably worth it.

You see, our commitment to youth policy has proven to be successful. I am sticking by it steadfastly because its; so obviously the right way to go long term. That's not me muddy-ing the waters. That's just the way it is. (der der der der der der der).


As Mr Heron's facial hair pointed out, it's really two positions. Also, they can cover, back row and half. You have to have that in the era of salary cap where you can't stockpile an international as reserve for every position.

Ablett and Smith gives five players with first team experience in that position. Please name me a team that is able to carry on its' books 6 out and out specialist centres that have 1st team experience in that position? That's where the youth policy comes in. If those 5 are struck down then its' ratu, Danny Allan or whoever is next on the production line.

I do see that and I can live with it because I'd hope that by next year our centre partnership is Watkins and Gibson. Letting them share time along side Senior this year with help with that. Of course, if Matt Gidley or Justin Hodges (or anyone of similar quality) suddenly become available and are willing to commit to 2 years plus on a cap friendly figure I'd like us to sign them. I wouldn't be interested in signing a Cameron Phelps or Chris Nero though. I'd rather go with the kids.

On Sunday McShane. By all accounts he did a very good job.



Having a threat isn't the problem. Watkins is a threat. A real threat with ball in hand. Look at the tries he's scored and set up in his brief appearances.

His problem is his defensive awareness and coping with the physical nature. That will come by playing in the 1st team.

Don't worry. When Webb is fit we will have our first choice experienced right centre available to us. Number 3.

A few years later yes but not quite the example I was driving at.

Agreed that's an additional worry. As far as Watkins posing a threat going forward he has great potential but so far one pass to Donald for one try to Donald is a poor return for our potent attacking weapon on the right.



That will be our famous Number 3 who has yet to start a 1st grade game for Leeds at right centre?

No worries our Number 5 had never started a 1st grade game for Leeds on the left wing either before the start of the season.

If senior is missing odd games here and there then I have no problem with it. In all reality he may have played on Sunday, but it was thought better to let him rest his niggle so that it doesn't turn into something worse.

If he picks up a longer term injury then we should look at some cover.

I know. How inconvenient that a junior was ready to step into the first team at this stage when your argument would've been suited to having a Dunneman or a Millard around




Whether it be right or left he's done far, far more in his first team games than that wonder pass to Donald.

He did pretty well, as I recall, in the MM game as an attacking threat, albeit on the left. Still, if Senior is as injury prone as you're all fretting about this year that is where he will play.

That's the fella. As far as I know he's started two at centre. Cas at home last year (left) and Wire away the year before. Was Wire away in the left centre?

Still, if the kid is as good as the revisionists on here tell me then left or right really shouldn't pose a problem.

Picking up cover isn't easy. Players are contracted to clubs.

Who would you all like the club to sign?

Remember the last centre we picked up, during season as cover? Clinton Toopi. hardly a roaring endorsement for the policy is it.

thats not the point i am making, which was that these young players benefitted and actually became better players because they came through with these old heads around and infront of them to help ease them in, the same as we expect Webb to make Smith and BJB better players, and Buderus will make Diskin and McShane better players, give watkins someone to bring him through



so why not take the pressure off him? there are two centre spots he can play in, having someone else there isnt going to stop us dropping/moving Senior, who will probably be gone in a year,

we would be much much stronger with cover there, and handled right it doesnt have to effect watkins

Who?

Hold up. Senior is our best centre. He's probably still the best English centre in the league (which says more about our ability to produce decent outside backs than it does about Senior's fading qualities).

Let me get this straight. You're suggesting playing Watkins and replacing Senior?

Who? And if you're happy with playing Watkins why not look for Senior's replacement (to play along side Watkins) for next year when we can sign a player we actually want rather than whoever is available mid season?

How about Keith Senior?

IMO Leeds are well stocked for centres and players who can play there if needed. I count Senior, Watkins, Ablett, Gibson and Smith.

That's significantly more depth than your nearest rivals who've resorted to playing Gilmour there due to the lack of available centres.

Compared with the other top SL teams it also looks healthy in terms of depth and ability.

At Bradford the situation is even more dire where we have two very average centres and one kid coming through, if Leeds were in our situation I could understand the need to make signings but you're obviously not.

TBF Leeds are very healthy across the park and should stick with the ethos that's got them into this position. Signing some bit part centre to delay the progress of young players isn't the path to follow anymore.

Save your breath Bullseye.

These lot think building a squad is as easy as playing Fantasy Football.

But I've highighted some salient points they may like to address anyway

we do have an old head in there. Its Senior, the man who has played more games in super league than anyone else, who has featured in the world team of the year on more than one occassion. Who would be a better role model on the pitch for Watkins and Gibson. Fullback and Hooker are different in that there is only 1 position on the pitch, where you will need to play understudy to a player to get experience and wait for an injury/suspension/rest to get a game. with centre we have the best player available in terms of experience, AND they get some serious game time. Its win win. If Gibson f*cks up, then watkins can come in, if he then f*cks up, gibson can come back in. If neither are working, ABlett has proved flexible enough to be trusted with it. Lets not forget that we won a Grand Final with Ablett in the centres

Just to get something straight, which appears to have completely gone over the heads of some people.

We did not win a GF with Ablett in the centres. We won a GF by getting away from doing that. We were overrun for the first 15 minutes of the GF with plenty coming down Abletts channell. We took the decision, correctly, to swap him and Ellis round. This completely changed the game, then we won a GF.

Would we have won with Ablett staying there? who knows, and who cares. But you can not lose sight of the fact that it was not working and a change was made.

It was also complained about continually on this very board last season when Ablett was used as the centre.

That said, I actually agree that if Ablett is used there this season, I dont see too much of an issue considering the lack of quality he would be facing in the marjoity of games.