El D.Lunt was just as weak defensivley until a few weeks ago as were the team i think defence can be improved as we've witnessed and also just to add Mcshane can cover 7 and 13 better than Lunt imo of course.
In terms of controlling the game again i'm sure given a sustained run of games he'd improve on that aswell.
However dont get me wrong i wouldn't be unhappy with Lunt far from it i just think Mcshane will be a departure we regret and he will become a very good all round 9.

Not sure Leeds would dictate the market in that scenario tbh with you!

Agree 100%. But this is one of the things that swings it towards Lunt for me. He really stepped up when it was most needed which is an obvious requirement of players in this Leeds team. And although McShane's impressed me on various occasions, notably the WCC, there seems to be an element of hit and miss about when he finds his form. Of course this might well be down to his on-off selection, but given that Brian M is unlikely to depart any time soon I don't really see now that he can be considered the player for us.

I too would be sorry to see McShane leave as quite clearly he has not been given the opportunities to develop unlike other players, Kirke for example. He is young enough and appears to have got better since he has been given game time at Widnes.
Lunt started off well and certainly finished the season well. But had some average games in between.
If a hefty fee was involved for Lunt I would stick with McShane and put the money to better use elsewhere for this big named signing we were going to get.

But the key you are missing, is that Lunt is far far far more versatile than McShane in the positions he can play. Bearing in mind Burow is going to play hooker no matter what, that limits the amount of time the second hooker gets. Far better to have someone who can play other positions also to accomodate that.

Lunt by plenty.

Although given a choice, an hooker even 75% of what Burerus gave us and playing near 80 minutes would be my preferred option. Neither McShane or Lunt are that.

I'd dispute that McShane is big enough to ever be a credible option at 13. Lunt on the other hand can (and has done) play in the back row. McShane can cover 7, but is behiind Sinfield, McGuire, Burrow and Ward as a half. 5th choice half backs are a luxury.

Also, I think a key consideration with Lunt is that he appears to have really bought into the ethos and spirit of this team. Which results and player testimony suggest is hugely important to our success. I retain some doubt about whether McShane had really done that. My big question is IF (and I have no idea) Brian Mac doesn't like him, is there perhaps a reason for that? Sporting teams require more than doing your specific set of on-field tasks well.

Lunt in the play-offs was a machine. He peaked with us and bought into that mentality. He'll never be able to do that at Huddersfield.

Showed some savvy assists to Ward and Abblett and tackled everything that moved with a gutsy shoulder. It's this area which has shown the most improvement. His hunger is there to see.

I think that McShane has massive potential but I'd say the same about Lunt. As I see room for him to grow and develop further if he can be a bit smarter when running from dummy half in the danger zone, especially against the better opposition. Not sure how do-able it is but I'd like to see both stay.

When I read the title to this thread my mind jumped back to this moment:

Mcshane is à thinker with à Great left boot see wcc .
unfortunately For him sir kev plays this role better than Any other player in SL. Wé will need a player like this when kev has gone but not for a few seasons yet . Lunt does not offer this option but fits in well now. I would retain mcshane as is as good as lunt now and offers better options for the future. Plus hate to see players coming back after heavy-metal investement by our club to bite us in the in the ass

Whoops , I meant heavy investment .

He played about 10 minutes in the WCC and produced 1 decent kick! I'm not knocking the kid, but I want to see more than that to call it a "great left boot."

I might be missing something with McShane but I struggle to see why he's so highly rated. Maybe he can develop into a really top player, but I haven't seen a huge amount from him in the game time he's had at Leeds to mark him out as more than "decent" at this level.

I might be missing something, but if he was a player at another club that was being touted as a possible signing there would be widespread shrugging of shoulders on this board.

I remain suspicious as to why a coach who has given good game time to the likes of Hardaker, Ward, BJB, Clarkson and Keinhorst would decide not to extend the same to McShane if there was no reason for it.

The problem is that McShane is stiffled at Leeds in that McDermott doesn't want him to do anything (in attack) other than pass from dummy half. He doesn't want him to scoot, kick or try anything fancy - despite him having the capabilities to do so.

He was also left to engineer his own loan move last season as he was told he wouldn't get any game time.

Basically he wasn't/isn't getting a chance at Leeds.

I think it's more that McDermott wants effective, reliable distribution from acting half instead of someone trying miracle plays. There's little need for him to kick from DH with Sinfield, McGuire & Burrow on the pitch and considering Lunt has often scooted from DH this year I'd suggest that isn't the issue.
I think McShane was trying to do too much and not doing what the coach wanted him to do. If he'd taken on board coaching advice from McDermott and especially Lowes, then I doubt he'd have been at Widnes and I doubt we'd have got Lunt.

barnabus is correct. thats what he was told. do nothing but give it to sinfield.mcguire and others

....and if a young player can't accept coaching from a two time GF winning coach and a coach who won MOS playing that position, he isn't going to have much of a career.

Quite. If you're given a game plan by the coach, stick to it. If you want to break that rule, you'd better be a rainmaker or you're going to find your coach short on patience.

If that's what happened, it might explain McShane spending time at Widnes....

Sinfield, McGuire and others? So, as hooker, he was given a game plan that required him to distribute the ball efficiently to his runners?

Radical.

Did he stick to it willingly? I would assume so. RL being a team sport and all.

To be fair it sounds like styles just not fitting. McShane clearly wants to play a more dynamic / mixed style of play from hooked whereas McDermott clearly wants a more direct player from there.

If that's the case rather than try and change a players game that in effect does limit him more its probably best to move him on / bring in the type of player you want or to give him that freedom from dummy half.

For example you wouldn't sign Rangi Chase and ask him to play 6 like Sinfield does? Difference here is obviously McShane has come through your own system.

Please please keep Lunt. We need mcshane, he's pure class. Brilliant hands, good defence and great kicking game. Match winner

My thoughts too. McShane did have chances but never quite showed enough real class and always gave me the impression of doing his own thing ( we used to call it greedy)

More than happy to retain Lunt who fitted in with the team including the will to win attitude.

I don't really rate Lunt that highly, and I don't see any advantage playing wise over McShane (who I believe is a better player and with more potential to improve). However, as JC points out, there are other considerations - how you fit the team mentality. I can't judge that because I don't work with them and maybe McShane simply isn't worth it for that reason.

Honestly, neither are world beaters but neither are numpties, so it's not the most critical decision the management have to make by a long way.

It is an interesting one, not a great fan of Lunt yes he played well the last few games, but he does not have the X factor, and do something unexpected. For some reason the coach does like McShane, who I understand is highly rated at Hull and Widnes where he has played on loan. I fear if we let him go we could be making the same mistake we made in the 1990's by letting Lowes go, which came back to haunt the club for many years. Yes he will make mistakes but i feel he could grow it a great player. But what about Hood, looked good at the start of the season, did nothing wrong as far as I could see and then set to Dewsbury.

We need the situation sorting out.

Think you need to watch the Grand Final to see what Lunt does well, several (3 or 4) attempts going for the line himself from close in ptbs, then having conditioned the defenders steps out again but slips a great late pass to Ablett who scores. That is a different, less obvious skill than a cut out pass or grubber, but the points count the same.

FWIW i understand Lunt will be a Leeds player next season.

IMO Lunt has the better all-round game, whereas McShane offers more "off the cuff" moments but his fair share of brainfarts and in particular poor defending down the middle.

I'd be happy with Lunt at Leeds for 2013, even if it means McShane moving on.

I've always been a big fan of Lunt and was excited when he came because I thought he was going to share the hooking with McShane. But I'd prefer to see McShane stay. Granted he hasn't lived up to his potential but for a young player in a pivotal position, you need game time. His development was no doubt hindered by being in and out. He obviously has something, just look at how the Widnes fans have rated.

The perfect example for me is McIllorum at Wigan. He left us without many eyebrows raised because we had better players (with better attitudes too probably). But he's developed into arguably the best hooker in the league because he's had consistent game time. McShane for me could go on to this level given the chance. We talk about Buderus, and he's gone on record saying that McShane can go to the top of the game.

My dad knows him quite well and I've spoken to h, and he comes across as quite quiet and humble. Lunt's done well but nothing that a confident MvShane couldn't