We still need to fix the front row, until we do that, we will not solve the main problem we have, one that affects our entire game plan. The forwards need to run much harder, tackle much harder and get us into position to give the halves and backs some space to play in. We lost because the pack got dominated. Again.

[quote="batleyrhino":2lv2bk8f]We still need to fix the front row, until we do that, we will not solve the main problem we have, one that affects our entire game plan. The forwards need to run much harder, tackle much harder and get us into position to give the halves and backs some space to play in. We lost because the pack got dominated. Again.[/quote:2lv2bk8f] Im not sure it was the front row why we lost that game. Their trys and field position came from outstripping us on the edges, and the reason we didn’t capitalise on the one man advantage was our attacking shape, we had the field position

That's how we let in tries. Batley is saying we fundamentally don't have enough oomph in our pack. I know Oledzki's stats will no doubt look nice again, but he just doesn't have a big impact with or without the ball. Palasia is a worker not a dynamo, as are both our starting second rows. Its all a bit blah. And don't get me started on Cam Smith.....

Our edge defense on both sides needs serious attention. Time to earn your money Langley and sort it.

[quote="batleyrhino":i2h59feu]We still need to fix the front row, until we do that, we will not solve the main problem we have, one that affects our entire game plan. The forwards need to run much harder, tackle much harder and get us into position to give the halves and backs some space to play in. We lost because the pack got dominated. Again.[/quote:i2h59feu] Yep correct. We were better in the second half because we ran harder with more intensity, you could see they got a rollocking! As I said earlier on this thread the pack looked average today. Now it’s too early to overreact but it’s very very concerning

[quote="Once were Loiners":octbwprd]That's how we let in tries. Batley is saying we fundamentally don't have enough oomph in our pack. I know Oledzki's stats will no doubt look nice again, but he just doesn't have a big impact with or without the ball. Palasia is a worker not a dynamo, as are both our starting second rows. Its all a bit blah. And don't get me started on Cam Smith.....[/quote:octbwprd] Lost count how many times Smith killed an attack. I really don’t rate him. Needs to improve a lot.

Obviously a really disappointing performance and one we’ve seen all too much over the last few years. The fast line speed defence got worked very early on the edges. Unfortunately, Handley and Newman are not defensively strong enough to make that style work in my opinion. They misread the jam in consistently throughout. Hopefully we will work it out but It’s a worry. Jake Connor turned out a display that he has for the last few years as well. Slow and lethargic. He cannot be our full back going forward. If he plays it must be in the halves. I said it early in preseason - I don’t see where our line breaks are going to come from. Gannon looked like the main threat and he hasn’t played for the best part of two years. In better news I though Mik looked quality until the head knock

[quote="FGB":3jbm96dy]Time to earn your money Langley and sort it.[/quote:3jbm96dy] Maybe they need JJB in the dressing giving them an inspirational talk about adversity, fortitude and verisimilitude... Or alternative pathways out of the sport.

After watching that $h!t3 today, I think BA will be going back to Oz sooner rather than later,

Looks like Peter Smith is a bit peed off as well given his player ratings for the game, only Hall in the backs scoring more than 5 out of 10, and Gannon, Holroyd and Cam Smith on 6 in the forwards. Not sure how Smith got 6 though. This is so frustrating because it feels that despite a change of coach and another round of ins and outs, we've got almost exactly the same problems as last year, with some new ones in terms of edge defence added. The forwards are physically way too easy to dominate, without a single player in our starting lineup that opponents would be worried about tackling, our spine (partly because of the forwards) looks clueless and we generally lack speed. I know its very early, but I'd already look at Sinfield for Frawley for at least five games as soon as he's fit. The utter nothingness that Frawley offers is a marvel to behold, and he will not be part of any long term future. We desperately need one of our spine to take charge and move the team around, give the forwards a spray etc, and not wait for the coach to have a dig at half time. I'm more disappointed in Croft than Frawley for that though. You can see why Croft failed utterly as lead halfback in the NRL.

I should add that had Miller and Sivo been available things might have looked very different. Both of them would be expected to make big yards on kick returns, which would take some pressure off the forwards. Maye Clark-Wood will help there and Miller will be back at some stage. But there has to be a Plan B. Doesn't there?

That game encapsulated the last few seasons to be honest. The atmosphere was flat, it just felt like nobody really believed from the first whistle. I really enjoyed watching Wakey’s attack in the first half, they looked like a team that had been well coached and knew exactly what they were doing. It would be easy to say the forwards didn’t get us rolling forward and give the backs chance in broken field, but let’s be honest, that could have been a Rohan Smith team out there today in attack.

I've just watched the highlights, how was that first Wakefield try given? Johnston looked to definitely be in touch.

[quote="Once were Loiners":22zfgp85]I should add that had Miller and Sivo been available things might have looked very different. Both of them would be expected to make big yards on kick returns, which would take some pressure off the forwards. Maye Clark-Wood will help there and Miller will be back at some stage. But there has to be a Plan B. Doesn't there?[/quote:22zfgp85] Wakey had 5 first team players missing but don’t worry, we’ll see ya in a few months at Belle Vue. Signing Connor was a desperate act, your return to the top table still seems a way off unfortunately.

[quote="Once were Loiners":2bk0g1ck]That's how we let in tries. Batley is saying we fundamentally don't have enough oomph in our pack. I know Oledzki's stats will no doubt look nice again, but he just doesn't have a big impact with or without the ball. Palasia is a worker not a dynamo, as are both our starting second rows. Its all a bit blah. And don't get me started on Cam Smith.....[/quote:2bk0g1ck] Precisely this, we get dominated far too easily, and I think this is what BA is referring to when he talks about simplicity, forwards before spreading it, constantly turning a forward back inside is easy to defend, but you must go forwards to create space. If we fix that, forwards go straight forward hard, win the collision, get a quick ptb, then the field opens up for the halves and backs. If you don’t do this, everything is Hail Mary…

First, a massive congrats to Wakey, who were excellent. Their shift plays out wide were akin to Cas of 2017. Speed of passing and play selection were night and day difference between us and them. Great to see Gannon out there, and thought he was one of our better players. Also thought Holroyd looked ok, and unlike others I thought Cam was decent going forward. While Croft and Connor had bad day, I just don’t see what Frawley or Ackers are offering. They’re painfully slow (thought Ackers was meant to be rapid!!), and their play selection is amateur. If Sinfield and O’Connor don’t look at those 2 and think they should be taking their starting spots in the next few weeks, that would amaze me. First week of the season, Wigan have lost and looked toothless in attack, Hull KR nearly lost to Cas who looked amateur last week. Loads of time and no need to panic yet, but it was a let down of a performance given all the talk in the off season

[quote="Trebor1":290wgw5p]Lost count how many times Smith killed an attack. I really don’t rate him. Needs to improve a lot.[/quote:290wgw5p] He's played under every coach since Brian Mac plus a couple more while out on loan. He won't improve, he can't improve. He's not alone either, our player development is dreadful.

I like Cam Smith as a person, I like his guts in defence as a player. You can see the Lee Crooks influence. He’s no Dave Heron.

Awful, but not suprising, if theres one thing you can guarantee, when this group of players are confident, they are over confident, and serve up a stit show every time. Pathetic, brain dead, bunch who think they're better than they are

Wakey fan in peace. After pounding us and looking 3 gears quicker than us in the first half on Boxing Day, then obviously watching the highlights of your game against Wigan I genuinely thought you’d be pushing top 4. You were completely nullified yesterday, Frawley was atrocious (never rated him) and in my opinion the most overrated english players in SL Connor, Bentley and Newman were atrocious too. Handley is not a centre but is a class winger. If you look at the Wakefield trinity stats which are easy to find you’ll see why you were beat. It was a clinical workman like team performance that beat you and the score was flattering. If everything clicks you have some team, but by that performance you look like you have too many individuals and not a team.

Cam poked his nose through a couple of times. Was ok going forward but has a bad habit of slowing the ball as a pivot.

[quote="Barrie’s Glass Eye":tor5aas7]Cam poked his nose through a couple of times. Was ok going forward but has a bad habit of slowing the ball as a pivot.[/quote:tor5aas7] He wants to watch back how 35 year old Pitts played yesterday. That’s why he’s never been in or around the England RL set up. His ball playing ability isn’t there, he’s one dimensional, just carried forward and stagnates the attack. He’s a powerful running 13, but a quality international 13 he is not. Dare say his brother was a better play playing forward.

Was really hoping for a noticeable difference after the "Brad Arthur effect" hype, most of the issues still there sadly.

The video ref and lino had shockers surely the wingers legs were on the floor over the touch line when he passes the ball? Still I thought we were second best. Trueman bosses the game in the fist half and the wakey props outplayed ours.

[quote="Pat Bateman":1wp3u0bh]Wakey fan in peace. After pounding us and looking 3 gears quicker than us in the first half on Boxing Day, then obviously watching the highlights of your game against Wigan I genuinely thought you’d be pushing top 4. You were completely nullified yesterday, Frawley was atrocious (never rated him) and in my opinion the most overrated english players in SL Connor, Bentley and Newman were atrocious too. Handley is not a centre but is a class winger. If you look at the Wakefield trinity stats which are easy to find you’ll see why you were beat. It was a clinical workman like team performance that beat you and the score was flattering. If everything clicks you have some team, but by that performance you look like you have too many individuals and not a team.[/quote:1wp3u0bh] All fair points nothing much to disagree with there. Think Wakey will go well this season, expected so much more from our lot.