As opposed to glossing over the decline in resources at London as the club itself declined. Considering no coach at London after McDermott has done any better wouldn't it make more sense to look at issues at club level rather than at the coach?

For instance the leaving of Lenagan and the emergence of Hughes seems to co-incide with their decline.

What research have you done to come to that conclusion?

I'm not a regular poster these days but when I was this was not something that was ever apparent to me.

Some excellent points made there particularly on the rebuilding restructuring already achieved in terms of the back line and now started on the pack.

Yes the halfback/pivot roles will need attention next but I guess it s all a question of priorities and that maybe is a subjective matter that everyone will have a different view on.

McDs overall record at Leeds is impressive IMHO in terms of trophies and deserves some respect.

Nobody who is fully employed would have the time to make so many posts as some do during working hours. Are you suggesting these regular posters are moonlighting when they should be working?

Is the fact that Leeds are 2nd in the table and in the Cup semi and you no longer a regular poster just a coincidence then?

That's not what you said previously though is it?

You said retired or unemployed.




I'm not suggesting anything other that questioning the research behind your claim that 'the regular posters are made up the retired or the unemployed.'

IIRC in 2012 London were assumed to be one of the SL clubs spending the full salary cap. Not sure that chimes with a coaching staff being deprived of resources (on the field at least) under David Hughes tenure. Hard as it is to believe there were/still are distinctly average coaches employed in SL.

That's a big assumption you're making in that first sentence without anything whatsoever to back it up!
Now onto this coaching debate does he also sh## gold coins?
Lets be honest im more than happy to admit he proved me wrong it was great to see us come good and witness the Club/Team I've followed for over 30years were competing for and winning trophies.
However like most sports we deal in the here and now I as others have pointed out there is a "shelf life" or even in this case a "stick or twist" situation on the horizon I personally think the very least we need is a new no2 someone with afresh approach and able to help Mc and the team.
The Coaches just like players are not always going to be bang on that's a given it happens and whilst the over-view looks good with 2nd spot and a CC semi on the horizon the fine detail amongst it needs addressing does it not or do we sit back and wait till we lose 2/3/4 major players at once or even the Coach?
Now I'm sure/hope GH has plans in place the opinions exchanged on here are just that and just as the "Sack the coach" calls obviously rankle with you this "he can do wrong" or anyone who thinks there are issues is "wrong" and don't represent the wider fan base is just as grating.
I don't just exchange views on here and whilst I will never claim to speak on anyone elses behalf but my own view with all due respect is that many fans are discussing the next stage re-Coaches and Players.

As big as wagon wheels.

Leeds' current situation is a complete irrelevance to my posting patterns - just as it will be if/when they are 5th and miss out on Wembley.

I`m self employed working hours 24/7 and still find time to post

Have you seen the size of Wagon Wheels recently, they're tiny compared to the ones you used to get!!!!!

They need to be as the great, fat, unwashed can't help themselves.

(for further reading see Juan's generalist, sweeping and largely embarrassing post)

Quote ="Rastrick Rhino"Have you seen the size of Wagon Wheels recently, they're tiny compared to the ones you used to get!!!!!'" Apparantly not the case. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagon_Wheels

Quote ="Rastrick Rhino"Have you seen the size of Wagon Wheels recently, they're tiny compared to the ones you used to get!!!!!'" Apparantly not the case. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagon_Wheels

Whether they were or not in 2012 I don't know but I do know they struggled to sign even average players and I also know that the resources available to the coaches declined significantly in recent years and during McDermott's time there. Resources for assistants, conditioners, analysts, training facilities etc.
Leeds spend almost as much on these aspects per year as they do on the first team itself.

I agree there are average coaches employed in SL. Whilst I don't think McDermott is the next Wayne Bennett I class him as well above these average coaches. And to present his record at London in isolation without reference to the club's issues is disingenuous at best.

What I do know about McD as a coach at Leeds is that I have had to eat my words on several occassions so have learnt to respect the guy.

It a seems to me he has a long term approach and stratergy and will sometimes make short term sacrifices on certain aspects to disguise is true intentions and longer term goals.

Leeds lost 18-14 away to Wakefield in the last couple of minutes. Warrington have just lost 26-40 at home to Wakefield. If your above comments are consistent can you confirm that you believe that Tony Smith should now walk too?

Also you never did confirm the list of average coaches so we can all understand better why you believe Brian McDermott to be below average.

As I haven't seen the Warrington V Wakefield match I'm not really in a position to have an informed opinion on the Warrington performance that day.



Was I asked to?

Not sure I recollect the context of the 'below average' comment so perhaps you'd care to direct me to it first.

Err, isn't moonlighting a second job? If people are being paid to post on here, I want me a piece of that action.

And what are you counting as "working hours"? I am (more than) fully employed. My work does not always happen between 9am and 5pm Monday to Friday.

I assume you did see the Wakefield v Leeds match then as you judged the Leeds players mistakes and poor form to be the fault of the Leeds coach and that he should resign as a result. So what specifically was it that you eye witnessed in the Leeds game that led you to deliver your comment on McDermott that couldn't be made against Smith because you didn't see the Warrington game?




You were asked to provide a list of above average coaches to justify your claim that BM is "distinctly average"



You may have used the words "distinctly average" but in the context of your other comments (see below) rather indicated you were making out a case that he is below average

tvoc

tvoc

My post after the shambles at Wakefield can be found on page 3 of this thread. The opening sentiment expressed there could have been repeated tonight as Leeds lost at home to an already relegated team for the 1st time since ..... ? And not just at Wakefield and tonight either but almost on a weekly basis since the Magic weekend.

I still cannot comment on a Warrington performance I did not see, did Tony Smith give some last minute boxing instructions to his most volatile player and smile broadly before his post match interview ?

The injury excuse you appear so fond of repeating at every opportunity is a all too predictable occupational hazard and one that needs to be overcome by the top clubs with the best squads and aren't Leeds fans always being told how this is their 'bestest ever assembled' or some such marketing inspired spin. Are Leeds really ever more afflicted than any other club in SL? Were Leeds more depleted when losing to St Helens in Round 7 ? When losing to Wigan in Round 13 ? When losing to Wakefield in Round 19 ?




McDermott is as 'distinctly average' as his 1st grade coaching career suggests he is - how else would you describe a close to 50:50 return. As Leeds are one of the very best resourced clubs in SL why do they entrust the critical role in terms of on field performance to someone who struggles to add any value, someone who IMO will shortly be about as relevant to the modern game as his original mentor who at least still has some currency with the BBC.

McDermott arrived at Leeds promising flamboyant, attractive attacking rugby without being too concerned with completion rates. He's only consistently achieved the latter despite still having a quality group of rather talented players - when he's not turning them into 'nutters.' What's it going to be like in two years time if he's still in charge?

As long as McDermott fits the CEO's primary requirement (and as long as the turnstiles keep clicking) he'll no doubt cling-on but the standard overall is declining when it needs to improve and where is the throughput from the Academy these last four seasons? The majority of those promoted to 1st grade have failed to live up to any reputation they'd gathered along the way while Wigan's in particular look a quality apart but perhaps that's still a continuing legacy of employing a quality coach in 2010.

Can't argue with that tvoc, it's spot on.

Until he can show he can win something with his own team, there will always be questions about it. Did't realise his record was 50/50. That's a poor record for a top team, especially one that was so dominant for so long.

Even John Kear won a couple of trophies, and with two different clubs. There is more to being a coach, some get lucky with good players.

We've been poor for a number of weeks but that is possibly the worst rhinos performance I have seen.

However we will gladly see the real rhinos next week. Do That and we will put ourselves in a pretty decent place to do what no other Leeds coach has done in a decade and a half.

The team needs to be judged on the games which matter not the ones that don't

Is frustrating, especually when I've made a special error to get to the game for once, but if we get a cc in the cabinet it pales into insignificance

Something that can't be disputed is that McDermott can win trophies if his players are good enough. Are his current players good enough? I have reservations. As a unit, our pack is adequate although I'm still unconvinced about the hooking role. Halves? Big question marks here IMO. Even our back five - allegedly the best in the league - seems somewhat lacking at times. For a 3/4 line heralded by many as the best in the game, it provides precious few game-breaking flashes of brilliance. Athletic prowess, yes, but the sublime incisiveness shown by the best to have played the game?

For me Mcdermotts credentials have weakened considerably since his first two trophy winning seasons. Not because of our barren year of 2013, but because of the way we have been losing games as other teams have strengthened and we have become more vulnerable. Last nights loss in itself says a lot about the man. He obviously thinks finishing higher up the league to gain home advantage is not really much of an advantage. This despite us being dispatched with ease in 3 games we ultimately needed to win last year (Huddersfield cup, Wire and Wigan play offs) all away from home. I would certainly question his judgement on that count. Gone are the days when we rolled up at Warrington and wigan at the end of the season and win from a lowly position. We are simply not good enough to coast along and then win the play offs on our own terms, we need every bit of effort, luck, and definitely home advantage against our improving rivals. If we bomb next week, as we normally do against Warrington in the cup, Mcdermotts credibility will take another hammer blow in my book.