Utter downer. I thought with the new, more basic style of play it would be much harder for us to be as headless as last season, but I was wrong. Our spine was really poor. They are the guys that need to take control when its going pear shaped and yet none of them did. Frawley just again looks a really poor player, but Ackers was poor and so were Smith and Croft. Add to that an edge defence that seemingly panics at the first sign of pressure, and it's all over. There's a reason why Handley, who was a centre in his youth, has never lasted more than a game there - for all his talk and training there he shows no composure at all when defending in that position. Not just his fault - the lack of communication between second row, wing and centre was awful. If available I think we have to bring in Clark-Wood and shove Handley back on the wing. Tough on Lumb but that edge will get taken apart every week. Hopefully either O'Connor or Sinfield are fit to take over at hooker. We need much more from there. I'd also put Edgell to full back and Connor to 7. Connor can't do worse there and his lack of speed will be less exposed. Jenkins must come in, maybe for second row, but I also find watching Cam Smith really painful in games like this. He's no captain and even after another off season with a changed style he finds a way to cripple attacking moves. I do not care how many second or third man in tackles he makes, before anyone lobs out the rather pointless stats.

It makes no sense to have a back sat on the bench all game. Why choose to handicap yourself?

[quote="Toosmooth":1ohcbmdu]It makes no sense to have a back sat on the bench all game. Why choose to handicap yourself?[/quote:1ohcbmdu] BA does have form for this I think.

[quote="christopher":19u1cbnd]Ive just typed a long rant and the forum reloaded. Can’t be d typing it again. Im fuming, im not saying we shouldn’t have got rid of Rohan but can you see us scoring some of those trys we did early on last year? I can’t Concentrated on Fitness to the detrement of actually playing rugby.[/quote:19u1cbnd] You thought your lads looked fit?! I thought the forwards were blowing very hard after about 20 minutes. With us having to run with 2 small guys on the bench I thought your fitness would see you dominate in the second half so seeing your forwards walk to the restart when the clock was ticking down really surprised me.

Connor's kick return is frustrating. Just jogging/skipping. Not why we lost but speed up and you might break a tackle. Pack ran it in harder in 2nd half. If they'd done that in 1st half maybe we would have won. Not a total disaster but very disappointing

The only thing positive about today is the fact rthat I have e better seat than last season. Hall was ok, the rest poor and Frawley should never play again for us, he is absoloute garbage, closely followed by Ackers

[quote="jonh":raz5feiz]You thought your lads looked fit?! I thought the forwards were blowing very hard after about 20 minutes. With us having to run with 2 small guys on the bench I thought your fitness would see you dominate in the second half so seeing your forwards walk to the restart when the clock was ticking down really surprised me.[/quote:raz5feiz] No they looked knackered which as I say is surprising seeing as that’s what theyve focused on all off season

I think we’re all very fatigued from seeing too much of what we saw today over the last few years… patience is wearing thin

We still need to fix the front row, until we do that, we will not solve the main problem we have, one that affects our entire game plan. The forwards need to run much harder, tackle much harder and get us into position to give the halves and backs some space to play in. We lost because the pack got dominated. Again.

[quote="batleyrhino":2lv2bk8f]We still need to fix the front row, until we do that, we will not solve the main problem we have, one that affects our entire game plan. The forwards need to run much harder, tackle much harder and get us into position to give the halves and backs some space to play in. We lost because the pack got dominated. Again.[/quote:2lv2bk8f] Im not sure it was the front row why we lost that game. Their trys and field position came from outstripping us on the edges, and the reason we didn’t capitalise on the one man advantage was our attacking shape, we had the field position

That's how we let in tries. Batley is saying we fundamentally don't have enough oomph in our pack. I know Oledzki's stats will no doubt look nice again, but he just doesn't have a big impact with or without the ball. Palasia is a worker not a dynamo, as are both our starting second rows. Its all a bit blah. And don't get me started on Cam Smith.....

Our edge defense on both sides needs serious attention. Time to earn your money Langley and sort it.

[quote="batleyrhino":i2h59feu]We still need to fix the front row, until we do that, we will not solve the main problem we have, one that affects our entire game plan. The forwards need to run much harder, tackle much harder and get us into position to give the halves and backs some space to play in. We lost because the pack got dominated. Again.[/quote:i2h59feu] Yep correct. We were better in the second half because we ran harder with more intensity, you could see they got a rollocking! As I said earlier on this thread the pack looked average today. Now it’s too early to overreact but it’s very very concerning

[quote="Once were Loiners":octbwprd]That's how we let in tries. Batley is saying we fundamentally don't have enough oomph in our pack. I know Oledzki's stats will no doubt look nice again, but he just doesn't have a big impact with or without the ball. Palasia is a worker not a dynamo, as are both our starting second rows. Its all a bit blah. And don't get me started on Cam Smith.....[/quote:octbwprd] Lost count how many times Smith killed an attack. I really don’t rate him. Needs to improve a lot.

Obviously a really disappointing performance and one we’ve seen all too much over the last few years. The fast line speed defence got worked very early on the edges. Unfortunately, Handley and Newman are not defensively strong enough to make that style work in my opinion. They misread the jam in consistently throughout. Hopefully we will work it out but It’s a worry. Jake Connor turned out a display that he has for the last few years as well. Slow and lethargic. He cannot be our full back going forward. If he plays it must be in the halves. I said it early in preseason - I don’t see where our line breaks are going to come from. Gannon looked like the main threat and he hasn’t played for the best part of two years. In better news I though Mik looked quality until the head knock

[quote="FGB":3jbm96dy]Time to earn your money Langley and sort it.[/quote:3jbm96dy] Maybe they need JJB in the dressing giving them an inspirational talk about adversity, fortitude and verisimilitude... Or alternative pathways out of the sport.

After watching that $h!t3 today, I think BA will be going back to Oz sooner rather than later,

Looks like Peter Smith is a bit peed off as well given his player ratings for the game, only Hall in the backs scoring more than 5 out of 10, and Gannon, Holroyd and Cam Smith on 6 in the forwards. Not sure how Smith got 6 though. This is so frustrating because it feels that despite a change of coach and another round of ins and outs, we've got almost exactly the same problems as last year, with some new ones in terms of edge defence added. The forwards are physically way too easy to dominate, without a single player in our starting lineup that opponents would be worried about tackling, our spine (partly because of the forwards) looks clueless and we generally lack speed. I know its very early, but I'd already look at Sinfield for Frawley for at least five games as soon as he's fit. The utter nothingness that Frawley offers is a marvel to behold, and he will not be part of any long term future. We desperately need one of our spine to take charge and move the team around, give the forwards a spray etc, and not wait for the coach to have a dig at half time. I'm more disappointed in Croft than Frawley for that though. You can see why Croft failed utterly as lead halfback in the NRL.

I should add that had Miller and Sivo been available things might have looked very different. Both of them would be expected to make big yards on kick returns, which would take some pressure off the forwards. Maye Clark-Wood will help there and Miller will be back at some stage. But there has to be a Plan B. Doesn't there?

That game encapsulated the last few seasons to be honest. The atmosphere was flat, it just felt like nobody really believed from the first whistle. I really enjoyed watching Wakey’s attack in the first half, they looked like a team that had been well coached and knew exactly what they were doing. It would be easy to say the forwards didn’t get us rolling forward and give the backs chance in broken field, but let’s be honest, that could have been a Rohan Smith team out there today in attack.

I've just watched the highlights, how was that first Wakefield try given? Johnston looked to definitely be in touch.

[quote="Once were Loiners":22zfgp85]I should add that had Miller and Sivo been available things might have looked very different. Both of them would be expected to make big yards on kick returns, which would take some pressure off the forwards. Maye Clark-Wood will help there and Miller will be back at some stage. But there has to be a Plan B. Doesn't there?[/quote:22zfgp85] Wakey had 5 first team players missing but don’t worry, we’ll see ya in a few months at Belle Vue. Signing Connor was a desperate act, your return to the top table still seems a way off unfortunately.

[quote="Once were Loiners":2bk0g1ck]That's how we let in tries. Batley is saying we fundamentally don't have enough oomph in our pack. I know Oledzki's stats will no doubt look nice again, but he just doesn't have a big impact with or without the ball. Palasia is a worker not a dynamo, as are both our starting second rows. Its all a bit blah. And don't get me started on Cam Smith.....[/quote:2bk0g1ck] Precisely this, we get dominated far too easily, and I think this is what BA is referring to when he talks about simplicity, forwards before spreading it, constantly turning a forward back inside is easy to defend, but you must go forwards to create space. If we fix that, forwards go straight forward hard, win the collision, get a quick ptb, then the field opens up for the halves and backs. If you don’t do this, everything is Hail Mary…

First, a massive congrats to Wakey, who were excellent. Their shift plays out wide were akin to Cas of 2017. Speed of passing and play selection were night and day difference between us and them. Great to see Gannon out there, and thought he was one of our better players. Also thought Holroyd looked ok, and unlike others I thought Cam was decent going forward. While Croft and Connor had bad day, I just don’t see what Frawley or Ackers are offering. They’re painfully slow (thought Ackers was meant to be rapid!!), and their play selection is amateur. If Sinfield and O’Connor don’t look at those 2 and think they should be taking their starting spots in the next few weeks, that would amaze me. First week of the season, Wigan have lost and looked toothless in attack, Hull KR nearly lost to Cas who looked amateur last week. Loads of time and no need to panic yet, but it was a let down of a performance given all the talk in the off season

[quote="Trebor1":290wgw5p]Lost count how many times Smith killed an attack. I really don’t rate him. Needs to improve a lot.[/quote:290wgw5p] He's played under every coach since Brian Mac plus a couple more while out on loan. He won't improve, he can't improve. He's not alone either, our player development is dreadful.