Some of the best halves had little pace. Other things can make it irrelevent. Ask Peter Sterling. Or probably more realistically ask Paul Deacon. You need to decide on Lilley a bit further down the track.

We lack pace in the middle hugely, we just don't have an awful lot of dynamism in there. Parcell and Burrow can offer it around the ruck but for a team which offloads as much as we do we don't exploit them as much as we should.

I think if we can find a top organiser to take the pressure off, i'd be happy to go with Sutcliffe who is deceptively quick and strong and Ward is a capable ball handler at 13 but top organisers are like Hen's teeth at the moment.

Conversely if we go with Lilley, we need a real dangerous runner whose presence will take some pressure of lilley because he will take time to be the type of scrum-half who can dominate a game and create gaps.

I think we are in a difficult position at the moment regarding recruitment. We have done well picking up some unheralded players like Parcell this season, Garbutt last, and Cuthbo in 2015 but less well with trying the same thing with Mullally, Achurch, and Falloon.
Personally i don't think we can afford to take a risk with that level of player right now, we arent in a position for a 'punt' like that because if we get it wrong it not only screws up our recruitment for probably 3 years, the opportunity cost is Lilley and/or Sutcliffe.

Go big or go with what we got.

Can I please remind you that we recently had a player without pace, he had a good rugby brain but NO pace.

The joke on the stands was don't worry he can go on for years as he won't loose his pace as he never had it.

He played loose forward and then half back for years.

He retired in 2015.

Pace is no good unless you have the player next to you who can move the team around and create the space for the player with pace

Lilley is too young to right off just yet

Surely the last year or so has shown that Burrow shouldn not be picked at halfback? There's no point in having 'cover' if its not up to scratch. We'd be better off putting a kid in there. I'd actually keep him next year anyway, as he's still a good bench impact player, but I don't see him starting many games at all.

As for Lilley, lacking pace means he has to develop other parts of his game. The best place to do that in the system we have is with the Bulls. He may not make it, but he's probably more likely to do so alongside a running halfback like Moon.

The OP is right in that decisions need to be made soon for next year. If we're to have any chance at all of recruiting a half decent playmaker we need to be talking to them today, not waiting until the end of the year. If we leave it too late the decision will be made for us through lack of alternatives.

Pace can be worked on. Luke Gale has developed enough to be dangerous. He never had it when he was younger.

I just don't see Lilleys future at Leeds at all.

I'd like to see Joe Mellor at Leeds.

To compare Lilley with Sinfield is a mistake. No disrespect to Lilley but he isnt in the same league.

I agree, and hope somebody is being lined up but there is also the chance they are waiting to see what happens with McGuire. I personally think he should/needs to call time after this year but have a feeling he may carry on.

Me too.

I'm not sure what he would bring to the team that we don't already have. If we're going to be targetting players under contract then they either need to have qualities we desperately need or be massive improvements on what we've already got.

Mellor is now 26 and still hasn't lived up to his early hype. He is not the quality we should be looking at if we're looking to stay at the top end of the table.

Daniel Mortimer

The omens seem to be that GH/BMcD are looking to use the Maguire/Moon partnership next year in the hope that either Lilley/Sutcliffe would improve sufficiently to save them money but for me I cant see either of them dominating a half back position.

I don't think Lilley is gona get the chance to be honest. Do we know if he signed that new deal last year or what?

We needed a replacement for Sinfield when he retired in 2015. Now almost 2 years on none of the youngsters have shown they have what it takes to step up as an organizer so IMO we need a marquee signing if possible or at least a Dunemann type player to bring on the next generation. But we do need to sign an organizer now.

A lot will depend on how this season finishes as to what GH can get away with. Top 4 and will be able to justify no more signings - outside of the top 4 makes that harder to explain.

That's the risk waiting though, as alluded to earlier we end up dipping in the bargain bin if we wait till September to see where we end up before acting as most OOC players are tied up by then.

It's not a risk, it's stupidity. We are where we are because of two reasons, one the hooker we got lucky with, and two the oppossition have fallen away badly. The oppossition sort themselves out for next year, Saints probably already have, and we are back to where the majority expected. The current position of the halfs wasn't good enough before the season started, and that doesn't change whether we fnish top four or not this year, it still isn't good enough.

Like i said earlier, i think a lot depends on what McGuire does. As of yet there is no news, so.....

Brierley would make a good running halfback.
The fact Huddersfield thought he would be a better fullback didn`t help the lads CV.
Oh and he woulld not cost us too much compared to a half decent HB from the NRL.

Brierley has found his level

Still think we gave up on Sutcliffe too early (although I now believe he should be our starting fullback but thats another discussion), everyone blamed him from running the ball too much and not taking control (including Mac by implication), but in Moon we now have a stand off whos only job seems to be to run the ball???

But Moon is a much better and more dangerous runner than Sutcliffe. Because of this he scores important tries and commits more defenders thus creating space for McGuire and others. He has done a fine job so far but he is not an organizer and that is what we urgently need.

Sutcliffe has much to offer and his goal kicking is greatly improved but I still do not regard him as a natural stand off.

I'm not sure I would phrase it as we have up to early on Sutcliffe but I'm not sure we set him up to succeed at half.

Last year we lost Sinfield and Peacock the best organiser and playmaker in SL history and the best prop and biggest pack leader in SL history imo, Our MoS fullback disappeared up his own ar5e for whatever reason, our strike ball handling centre developed a bad case of the dropsies for the entire year our new hooker was a complete bust, our scrum half couldn't get on the field and we somehow ended up with the scapegoats being our hooker/scrum half because he wasn't able to be hooker and scrum half at the same time and a 21 year old stand off.

I think it's testament to Sutcliffe that at 22 he has a hundred appearances has won trophies has come through injuries and has at times looked natural at fullback, centre, stand off and loose forward. 4 of the most technical and difficult positions in the game. As I said before, get us a top organiser for 3 or so years and I'm happy committing to Sutcliffe at stand off.

Even if McGuire wants to wait and see how he is at the end of the year I'd go all out looking for a halfback anyway. In the event he stays on Moon would move back into the centres. If he retires Moon stays at halfback.

The only reason I wouldn't go with the above is if there simply isn't any quality available. I certainly don't think we should sign anyone for the sake of signing someone.