I have just watched the Bailey tackle again & have to say that I think the touch judge & Thaler got this wrong. First thing to say is that it appears that neither the touchy or Thaler thought it was a shoulder charge tackle & I don't think it was based on my understanding of a shoulder charger either. So, he was not dismissed for a shoulder charge & I assume Thalers report will not cite that as the reason for the red card. Thaler said in conversation with his touchy that (he thought) it was late and there was contact with the head & he then asked his touchy did he contact with the head? The touchy said he does & then Thaler immediately sends Bailey off on the basis that it was late and contacted with the head, off course it is the contact with the head that justifies the red card as a late legal tackle is just now generally considered a penalty.

Having looked at it both at full speed & the replays then I think the late call is debatable. Bailey hits Bosc just a slit second after he passes the ball & indeed looking at the video the ball doesn't get to Pryce before the hit comes in and it does look like Bailey was committed, but he does hit him after the ball has left so happy to concede that it was late, even if Bailey was probably unable to pull out. As for contact with the head, it appears to me that there isn't any contact with the head. One of the angles does seem to show Bosc heads going back but from the other angles that looks to be just the head going back from the force of the hit and not due to any illegal contact.

Having said all that, I struggle to overly critisise Thaler or his touchy because they at least made a decision & stuck with it, even if the video proves them to be incorrect in hindsight. I support ref's not been afraid to get the red card out & not bottle making a decision on incidents like this and taking the easy way out of putting it on report & therefore shifting the responsibility to the video review & then the disciplinary panel. They made a call & I have to respect them for that.

Equally, assuming that Thalers repot cites a late challenge & illegal contact with the head, and it appears that there wasn't any, then Bailey will just get sending off sufficient or possibly no case to answer & be available next week.

Can't see that it was stripped either just one of those cases where the ball is less secure reaching for the grounding and there's hands in making the tackle/attempting to hold the ball up.

It can't have been a penalty try because it would have been awarded under the sticks, but must agree, I couldn't see any clear evidence of the ball being touched down legally, in fact the weight of evidence seems to point to the opposite. Couple that with what looks like a clear push on Moon, then I struggle to see why he felt the warranted even a benefit of a doubt call.

Of course, he might find his earlier swinging arm might get him a trip to Redhall, so maybe saying he should be available next week is premature!

Unfair. Against Bradford he made 48 tackles and only a couple of penalties. I wish we had another 2 like him.

That's pretty much how I saw it. Not particularly late, nowhere near as late as the one Catalans were penalised for, and didnt make contact with the head. I too don't really blame Thaler for sending Bailey off. If there had been contact with the head then a red card would be justified and Thaler and the TJ's get only one look at it. I wish there had been a ref with Thalers balls at Headingley on Thursday.

As for the Pryce try, that's a ridiculous call. A clear obstruction on Moon.

JJB undoubtedly gives away many penalties.....BUT I would always have him as one of the first on the team sheet.

How the Pryce "try" could be awarded is incomprehensible....bizarre.

Even with just 12 men, is it just coincidence that Leeds looked a lot better with a 'proper' hooker on the field of play?? McShane should be on for large minutes just for those close in dummy half speciality tries.

I thought we looked better with mcshane on with rob getting into dummy half when required, it worked well.

In response to the Pryce try, I thought Ian Smith would have done a better job with it and disallowed the try

IA-Re-Thaler i totally disagree he's got the call wrong the touch judge has the call wrong and he's sent off Bailey so how does that add up to doing a decent job because he showed guts to Red card a player that wasn't deserved???
First of all our discipline was totally p!$$ we've had Thaler before and at H/T it was very clear how he was "reffing" this one yet we continued to give ridiculous cheap penalties away and made it easy for him to ping us imo.
That said once again live on tv we've witnessed a team of officials clearly not up to the job and even worse from the VR.
It's about time the RFL actually monitored and coached these officials because they are spoiling games and having an input into the games they shouldn't be having imo.
Fair play to the lads a great effort and well deserved hard earned win but just once i'd also like MC to rip into his team for cheap penalties and stupid avoidable intefferance at the ptb.

Interesting interview with Brian Mac - www.therhinos.co.uk/matchdaytv/? ... VoWuZNOSSo

Interesting interview with Brian Mac - www.therhinos.co.uk/matchdaytv/? ... VoWuZNOSSo

Quote ="MattyLeeds"Interesting interview with Brian Mac - www.therhinos.co.uk/matchdaytv/? ... VoWuZNOSSo'" Personally think he does himself a disservice in that interview, there were some poor calls but Leeds discipline (not for the first time) was poor too, and would think he'll honestly relay that to the players too.

Quote ="MattyLeeds"Interesting interview with Brian Mac - www.therhinos.co.uk/matchdaytv/? ... VoWuZNOSSo'" Personally think he does himself a disservice in that interview, there were some poor calls but Leeds discipline (not for the first time) was poor too, and would think he'll honestly relay that to the players too.

Got back from elland road avoided the result very good performance backs to the wall.

One question re the team warning how long do they last for?

At the referee's disgression, so it could be 5 mins to the whole game i'd imagine

No set time, just at the referrees descretion.

I agree Seth we did ourselves no favours when it was clear very early on how Thaler was gonna perform.
That said Thaler was sh## when it came to the penalty count going the other way and not the 50/50's either blatant offences ignored by the numpty.

Thought the opening 2 of the second half stood out as being harsh, seemingly calling 'move' then immediately awarding the penalty, though would have to watch again to confirm. Many more were poor though, firstly giving the strip on peacock that never was whilst giving the knock on against McGuire playing at pryces arm, though neither discipline concerns.

I have no complaints about our penalty count being so high, our discipline was very poor (and unnecessary because Catalans were poor and it was the only reason the game was tight), and most of the calls against us were correct (by Thaler, the Video Ref decision was rubbish).

That Catalans only had about 3 or 4 given against them after 60 mins wasn't right though. He seemed to give us a few at the end once the result was out of doubt almost as a token gesture.

If we had better discipline then we would've probably been 20+ points clear going into the last 20 mins, instead we were level and fighting for the result.

Quote ="MattyLeeds"Interesting interview with Brian Mac - www.therhinos.co.uk/matchdaytv/? ... VoWuZNOSSo'" Isn't it usually the case when someone says 'this isn't a whinge' then what follows almost certainly will be. The penalty counts for Leeds' last five visits to Perpignan have been: =#0000BFawarded to Leeds, =#FF0000against 5-Apr-10 ..... Won 24 - 34 ..... Stade Aime Giral ...... Ben Thaler ..... =#0000BF7- =#FF00007 10-Jul-11 ..... Lost 38 - 18 ..... Stade Gilbert Brutus ..... James Child ..... =#0000BF4 - =#FF000012 18-Aug-12 ..... Lost 38 - 34 ..... Stade Gilbert Brutus ..... James Child ..... =#0000BF7- =#FF00007 21-Sep-12 ..... Won 20 - 27 .....Stade Gilbert Brutus ..... Ben Thaler ..... =#0000BF7 - =#FF000015 1-Apr-13 ..... Won 12 - 27 ..... Stade Gilbert Brutus ..... Ben Thaler ..... =#0000BF8 - =#FF000016 Two even, three blow-outs. It'll be interesting to hear some specifics from McDermott (in the fullness of time) as to which of the penalties conceded he's unhappy with. In August 2010 Leeds had a penalty count 15 - 6 in their favour V Les Catalans at Headingley, so it might be naive to imagine it's always one way traffic against Leeds.

Quote ="MattyLeeds"Interesting interview with Brian Mac - www.therhinos.co.uk/matchdaytv/? ... VoWuZNOSSo'" Isn't it usually the case when someone says 'this isn't a whinge' then what follows almost certainly will be. The penalty counts for Leeds' last five visits to Perpignan have been: =#0000BFawarded to Leeds, =#FF0000against 5-Apr-10 ..... Won 24 - 34 ..... Stade Aime Giral ...... Ben Thaler ..... =#0000BF7- =#FF00007 10-Jul-11 ..... Lost 38 - 18 ..... Stade Gilbert Brutus ..... James Child ..... =#0000BF4 - =#FF000012 18-Aug-12 ..... Lost 38 - 34 ..... Stade Gilbert Brutus ..... James Child ..... =#0000BF7- =#FF00007 21-Sep-12 ..... Won 20 - 27 .....Stade Gilbert Brutus ..... Ben Thaler ..... =#0000BF7 - =#FF000015 1-Apr-13 ..... Won 12 - 27 ..... Stade Gilbert Brutus ..... Ben Thaler ..... =#0000BF8 - =#FF000016 Two even, three blow-outs. It'll be interesting to hear some specifics from McDermott (in the fullness of time) as to which of the penalties conceded he's unhappy with. In August 2010 Leeds had a penalty count 15 - 6 in their favour V Les Catalans at Headingley, so it might be naive to imagine it's always one way traffic against Leeds.

TVOC-I may be wrong but the impression i got from Mc's interview was that he wasn't happy with the penalties we didn't get rather than what we wee penalised for.

I'd pretty much agree with this. I thought our players looked a bit tired and frustrated. But although we were niggly, our discipline in defence was sufficiently good to win. It would have been an easy game to lose last night but overall we were pretty much in control, barring the few minutes after Bailey's departure.

On the penalties I think Thaler and his assistants got most of the ball stripping calls wrong for both teams, but that's just one of those frustrating things that can happen when you have a wet ball and someone who wants to get the maximum use out of his whistle.

The penalties that really hack me off are the ones where good defence is penalised. From the kick off second half Achurch puts in a massive hit and Leeds piled in and drove the runner back - Thaler calls held, then gives the Leeds players no leeway to stop themselves. You can't go from full on driving to complete stop in the time he gave them. Then straight after, from that penalty, another dominant tackle and the player with the ball throwing himself around and he blows up again. So we had two great defensive efforts from Leeds penalised - total bull.
The flipside is that Cats are allowed an age to lie on in the tackle and slow Leeds PTB down because they do it at every tackle, and as I've said before refs penalise unusualy long PTB's, so if you are consistantly slow you get away with it.

Interesting after match comments from BMD when interviewed on the the pitch regarding why he thought Cats had such big penalty count advantage. The Sky boys thought he was looking at the crowd, I think he was looking up at their commentry box.

Agree with those 2 penalties in particular as I mentioned above.

After sneaking behind, going down to 12 and having limited men, the turnaround was very impressive. Leeds kept their cool in a game where that was hardly on display much. When McShane pounced over and we regained the lead for the Catalans to attempt a short kick-off was a shortcut with 10 minutes to play. They failed, handed position over to us and we used it to seal the game. Their 2 trys came from being at the right end of the field for long enough they should have been more patient.

Quite right. I am sure Mac will not be too happy at the number of penalties against us but penalty stats do not tell the story. All too often we see a referee go after just one side (and not just against Leeds) at crucial times in a game that effects the result. Perhaps aware of the penalty count they then try to balance the count at a time when it cannot effect the result. So although the penalty account in the stats seems fair in practice it was not.

Many of the penalties going against Leeds were justified but it could be fairly said that the ref was more than tolerant and let similar ones go unpenalised against the Catalans. It was a similar story last week against Bradford.

Our game is suffering from a lack of quality from the referees. It seemed better when they were not fully professional.

You sound like Ian Millward.

I'm sure you're more well behaved with cheerleaders though