Why are you singling out Northern Hemisphere rugby union? In any part of the world you take points on offer.

If you or I were king of the forest, this may be true. However neither of us has it in their gift to arbitrate as to what is and isn't rugby.

RL has been telling the world how much better it is because it has more tries for as long as I can remember. This futile attempt to tell people what they want doesn't seem to have lead to RL replacing RU in the national pecking order.

Given that we can't take the decision amongst ourselves to decide that RU isn't rugby (their code is as old as ours is after all) and telling the public what they ought to want hasn't worked, perhaps we should look harder at the off-field areas RU is kicking our s on.

In most schools across the country, RU is Rugby. So a child's first experience is often playing RU, then they watch a game in front of a packed crowd like the one on Saturday and there is no wonder that an empty stand at a flood lit, rain soaked game on a Saturday evening fails to catch their imagination. RL is getting better at it's youth involvement, but in the South Yorkshire area I live 3 of 6 local clubs have gone to the wall in the last 10 years and a further 2 were very close to going under. There are a couple of very professional RU clubs locally who seem to be doing a lot of the right things and have booming youth set ups, that are often well funded by some of the more financially secure from the local area.
Somehow the RL media machine(!?!) needs to compete for the attention of these kids.

Beacause people talk on here about the fact that League and Union is two different games and we should see it that way. For me Southern Hemisphere union is not that many miles different in a lot of ways to league, and is heavely influenced by league.

The two different hemispheres version of union is miles apart, so therefore I single out Northern Hemisphere for the critisism.

I'd agree that the intent in Southern Hemisphere RU is much more try first; kicks second. They appear run better attacking structures at pace that create the chance for tries, which in turn lifts the defensive intensity of the opposition.

I'm not sure how much of it is really different intent. I think there's still a bit of a skill deficit in northern hemisphere RU. England have looked willing to move the ball (when they have quick ball) but execution of the plays has been a bit stilted or let down by poor execution.

I think there is an extra element of conservatism in Northern Hemisphere RU, which seems to be a game plan much more reliant on grinding out the win. It is probably true to say that this is governed by the skill deficit.

Yep, I think they could do with either using the scrum half better (ie more than just an farming out the ball at the back of rucks and mauls) as a first (with stand off as 2nd) or 2nd receiver. I've lost count of the amount of times I've seen an overlap or a good attacking position wasted. The ball comes out of the ruck/maul to the stand off who seems to want to spread the play by passing it, only for the next receiver to either pass the ball back inside or simply drive it in himself. If they had another half or someone with the skills/ability/vision/confidence to exploit the space out wide then I think they'd score far more tries.

I see no difference in the two hemispheres when it comes to policy on kicking penalties for points.

I was away in South Africa first week of March, and went to watch the Blue Bulls on Saturday 2nd. Can't remember who they were playing, force or something I think.

Anyway the Bulls twice, and the other team once, did not take the penalty on offer within 30 yards of goal. The match finished something like 38-27 (can not remember final score). There were tries scored, and the whole intention was scoring tries and entertaining.

This is why the Welsh and English Unions are changeing the minis and junior game fundamentally and trying to educate coaches better. The support I get is now phenomenal both from the RFU direct and our club partner London Irish. And we work with progressive, forward thinking young coaches who have really bought into what the RFU is trying to accomplish (more skillfull players with better game sense). The rules that kids coming through this year play to are almost completely different than the ones my son had. At U9 we were supposed to go from TAG to basically rugby - rucks, mauls and scrums (although uncontested), then at U10 you effectively play full rugby 7's (just 9 a side). Contested 3 man scrums and contested 3 man lineouts. As soon as you got to contact all the kids just started running into each other and forgot how to pass. It's taken us nearly 2 years to get some kids to offload before contact or from contact while staying on their feet. We can't get half the kids to ruck and half the kids won't tackle. The new rules at U9 eliminate rucks and mauls and players have to offload from the tackle - it's a huge difference - it's now about handling and support.

Even top players have kittens when they find themselves in space (and I see this in Southern hemisphere rugby as well - little difference). Contrast that with the simple support and pass mentality in league - very rare that players who make a break in league don't know what to do, very rare that they take a tackle when they have a support player to pass to and it's a criminal offence to blow a 2 on 1 (even Ian Kirke was expected to know exactly what to do when he made probaly his first clean break in 5 years against Wigan).

Quote ="Gotcha"I was away in South Africa first week of March, and went to watch the Blue Bulls on Saturday 2nd. Can't remember who they were playing, force or something I think. Anyway the Bulls twice, and the other team once, did not take the penalty on offer within 30 yards of goal. The match finished something like 38-27 (can not remember final score). There were tries scored, and the whole intention was scoring tries and entertaining.'" I watch around 3 super rugby games a week, most SA teams have a player who can kick penalties from their own half and regularly make the attempt. You are an idiot in any hemisphere if you don't kick a kickable goal unless you are chasing the game and need 7 or you're well in front and going for a bonus point try. I will guarantee you that first objective of any team is to win the match. As for the match in question...looks like plenty of penalties taken when appropriate. www.bluebull.co.za/article.aspx?artid=1818974 "[iThe Vodacom Bulls used their get-out-of-jail card early this year, struggling to put the Western Force away 36-26 in a negative and frustrating Vodacom Super Rugby game at Loftus Versfeld on Saturday, writes Brenden Nel of SuperSport.com.[/i" rugbymatchcentre.nzherald.co.nz/ ... 8&mid=2771 51 minutes Bulls refuse to take 3 points and kick for touch - result was that Force hold them out and then go on to score a try of their own a minute later. Big mistake? Second time they refuse the goalkick in the 78th minute they are going for the try bonus point.

Quote ="Gotcha"I was away in South Africa first week of March, and went to watch the Blue Bulls on Saturday 2nd. Can't remember who they were playing, force or something I think. Anyway the Bulls twice, and the other team once, did not take the penalty on offer within 30 yards of goal. The match finished something like 38-27 (can not remember final score). There were tries scored, and the whole intention was scoring tries and entertaining.'" I watch around 3 super rugby games a week, most SA teams have a player who can kick penalties from their own half and regularly make the attempt. You are an idiot in any hemisphere if you don't kick a kickable goal unless you are chasing the game and need 7 or you're well in front and going for a bonus point try. I will guarantee you that first objective of any team is to win the match. As for the match in question...looks like plenty of penalties taken when appropriate. www.bluebull.co.za/article.aspx?artid=1818974 "[iThe Vodacom Bulls used their get-out-of-jail card early this year, struggling to put the Western Force away 36-26 in a negative and frustrating Vodacom Super Rugby game at Loftus Versfeld on Saturday, writes Brenden Nel of SuperSport.com.[/i" rugbymatchcentre.nzherald.co.nz/ ... 8&mid=2771 51 minutes Bulls refuse to take 3 points and kick for touch - result was that Force hold them out and then go on to score a try of their own a minute later. Big mistake? Second time they refuse the goalkick in the 78th minute they are going for the try bonus point.

Wales currently seem a little better at this. Tipuric's (a forward) dummy, draw and pass for Cuthbert's 2nd try was better than anything I've seen in that department from either of England's current centres.

This is exactly how I see it. You see the ball getting passed to a centre then they run it back in instead of using the attacking line.

We are told that RU is not about scoring tries though, it’s about scoring points. If this is the case then how are the points scored?

Either by a drop goal, which is quite difficult to achieve give the narrow distance between the attacking and defending lines or a penalty. From what I have seen of international RU the objective seems to be; get to within kicking distance and try and gain a penalty.

So you don’t try to score tries, you try to get the opposition to fu*k up.

Give me league any day of the week.

Some interesting reading. Personally, I have no interest in RU and, like basketball or ice hockey, do not watch it. I find the stop/start nature, reliance on random refereeing decisions and the absence of ever being in possession in their own half, frustrating. Occasionally I have tuned in to see how ex RL players are doing, but quickly lose interest.

RU is a sport which was built on discrimination and intimidation. The way RL was treated for 100 years by the RFU was beyond scandalous. Players were threatened or banned for life for as much as training with an amateur RL team. You can't imagine top players were not financially rewarded when they were turning down big money offers from up north, but clearly they weren't otherwise the tax man would have had his share. For these reasons I will happily support any team playing against England RU.

Rugby is a term that is owned by Rugby Union. We conceded it when we created Super League.

Is Rugby without Rugby, Rugby?

I did attempt to watch some of the Six Nations.
But after watching so many re-set scrums, a couple of line-outs, penalties for not rucking properly and a spell of fullback tennis, (all this with no attempts at a tackle bust, a break, a step, an offload or a passing game) someone "found touch" (like it's difficult to locate) and I went and did something else.
I was left with the thought that they criticise League for being "five drives and a kick" ... I didn't see five drives of any merit.

The debate between union and league has gone on for years, unfortunately for league the big money is in union.
So in veiw of England's melt down in Cardiff , with both English centres not capable of passing the ball I can see more approaches for decent league players. Especially after a rocky start Tompkins at Saracens is producing the goods,he looks like touring with England to Argentina this summer. If he performs he will be in the England team this year.
If that happens brother Sam may join him in league,it will be easier money than nrl,cue for weeping and wailing from a certain town in Lancashire.

Presumably by the try count the Wigan/Widnes game tonight is one of the best games of the season ?

If only Sky had an accurate way of following their viewing numbers by the minute I do believe they'd discover huge swathes of them dropping off the radar as the game progressed.

Sam actually plays most weeks in league against flat track,bully boy,whipping boy rabble sides
Although he has missed the last two games against the Rhinos


Nice gesture though of Sams club to let him pass his fitness test and just in time to score an easy hat trick of tries against tonights sky sports whipping boy rabble Widnes
Some posters would have Super Sam down as nothing more than a flat track bully would they not?

ps to Sam
A very nice pass from dummy half tonight into the dead goal area



England urgently needs you to find a position that you actually excel in,besides being a very talented broken field runner and an off the cuff wonder star cos you certainly cant tackle or take high balls

haha... I will take this a sarcasm

Well said Coco. And while we re at it let s not forget the shameful way that during WW2 the French RU collaborated with the pro- Vichy regime to ban League in Southern France and strip the growing number of French Rugby league clubs of their assets and funds - none of which were ever returned and for which FRU never apologized.

LOL - I knew someone would mention the war...

I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it

They lost me at half-time when it seemed like Phil Clarke was about to pleasure himself over Wigan's 100% tackle rate. I know it has been done to death but they really should get rid of this 2@. Baz, Tez and Carney all proudly played for Wigan but keep some semblance of impartiality.